follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
RR Racing
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions

Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here.


View Poll Results: What name should Toyota use for the production Toyota FT-1?
Supra gets my vote! 367 74.59%
I don't know, but its time for a new name. 125 25.41%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-30-2018, 01:09 PM   #2633
Yoshoobaroo
Torque BuffaloChicken Dip
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,435
Thanks: 684
Thanked 1,013 Times in 562 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRX View Post
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mkv...uestions.1341/



I stand corrected, it has not been confirmed but I probably very likely.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


That claim has no weight in facts though. There's no way BMW will put an iron block back in the Z4.

I will eat my hat if the motor isn't made like this:

1: Aluminum or Magnesium alloy block with iron/steel sleeves, copper coated

2: Forged steel crank

3: Fracture-split single crystal aluminum alloy rods

3: Cast aluminum alloy pistons

All BMW's turbo engines since the N54 have been like that, I see no reason to change it. The N54 holds 1000 HP on an unopened longblock, IF you can fuel it.
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 01:12 PM   #2634
gymratter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: BMW
Location: TX
Posts: 1,373
Thanks: 1,087
Thanked 821 Times in 474 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
That claim has no weight in facts though. There's no way BMW will put an iron block back in the Z4.

I will eat my hat if the motor isn't made like this:

1: Aluminum or Magnesium alloy block with iron/steel sleeves, copper coated

2: Forged steel crank

3: Fracture-split single crystal aluminum alloy rods

3: Cast aluminum alloy pistons

All BMW's turbo engines since the N54 have been like that, I see no reason to change it. The N54 holds 1000 HP on an unopened block, IF you can fuel it.
Insider A70TTR has hinted the Z4 will use the strandard B58.
gymratter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gymratter For This Useful Post:
Yoshoobaroo (07-30-2018)
Old 07-30-2018, 01:12 PM   #2635
Guff
Now w/ over 400 womprats!
 
Guff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: BRZ LZR
Location: Texas/Illinois
Posts: 4,760
Thanks: 10,388
Thanked 3,331 Times in 1,405 Posts
Mentioned: 290 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Garage
Yeah, we have been told be various internal sources to expect some type of "iron" block, most likely CGI from my research. Weight penalty should be minimal as CGI is a material that can be much lighter than grey iron with similar strength. The motor and head design are a BMW collaboration with the head being carefully engineered by Toyota to integrate their proprietary technologies and ensure reliability.

Again, this is from Toyotas sources but I haven't seen any hard evidence that proves it so take it as you will.
__________________
"Sweet Subaru, sweet Subaru, send your BRZ unto me, for the roads of the unworthy must be baptized in speed and glory."
- The Ancient BRZ Sacrament
by Zaku
Guff is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Guff For This Useful Post:
gymratter (07-30-2018), Yoshoobaroo (07-30-2018)
Old 07-30-2018, 01:14 PM   #2636
BRX
Senior Member
 
BRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Posts: 163
Thanks: 41
Thanked 103 Times in 60 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
That claim has no weight in facts though. There's no way BMW will put an iron block back in the Z4.

I will eat my hat if the motor isn't made like this:

1: Aluminum or Magnesium alloy block with iron/steel sleeves, copper coated

2: Forged steel crank

3: Fracture-split single crystal aluminum alloy rods

3: Cast aluminum alloy pistons

All BMW's turbo engines since the N54 have been like that, I see no reason to change it. The N54 holds 1000 HP on an unopened block, IF you can fuel it.
That's what I would have guessed a month ago or so. But from the info "A70" from the MKV forum has provided, it is highly likely that link's speculation will be true. He works at Toyota and pretty much all of his info has been proven to be true eventually.

CGI was used to keep the engine weight relatively light but still as strong as an iron block.

I guess we'll find out soon.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
BRX is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BRX For This Useful Post:
gymratter (07-30-2018)
Old 07-30-2018, 01:15 PM   #2637
Yoshoobaroo
Torque BuffaloChicken Dip
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,435
Thanks: 684
Thanked 1,013 Times in 562 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
[QUOTE=Guff;3115941 the head being carefully engineered by Toyota to integrate their proprietary technologies and ensure reliability.[/QUOTE]


Hmm, I wonder if that means we'd get dual port/direct injection again...
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post:
gymratter (07-30-2018)
Old 07-30-2018, 01:21 PM   #2638
WolfpackS2k
Senior Member
 
WolfpackS2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: '06 Cayman S, '92 DB2 GS-R
Location: NC
Posts: 2,199
Thanks: 1,934
Thanked 1,111 Times in 654 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
This is a curiosity, but I've got to ask. What's the point of reinventing the wheel?

ASSUMING all reports about the Supra's power rating are remotely accurate (roughly 335hp and 400 lb-ft torque) then why the hell would anyone bother giving the Supra anything bespoke? The BMW 3.0 liter six already makes 300-460 hp in various iterations.

I fail to see the logic here, assuming the Supra has less than 400 hp.
__________________
'06 Porsche Cayman S
'13 SWP BRZ-L - Innovate Stage 1, Nameless over & down pipes, RevWorks UEL Header - RIP, claimed by VIR T10

'07 S2000 - DD & track rat - sold
'92 GS-R - 300k club member
WolfpackS2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 01:23 PM   #2639
Yoshoobaroo
Torque BuffaloChicken Dip
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,435
Thanks: 684
Thanked 1,013 Times in 562 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
This is a curiosity, but I've got to ask. What's the point of reinventing the wheel?

ASSUMING all reports about the Supra's power rating are remotely accurate (roughly 335hp and 400 lb-ft torque) then why the hell would anyone bother giving the Supra anything bespoke? The BMW 3.0 liter six already makes 300-460 hp in various iterations.

I fail to see the logic here, assuming the Supra has less than 400 hp.


That's the train of thought I'm coming off.
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 01:25 PM   #2640
drew_kar
Senior Member
 
drew_kar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: WRB Brz
Location: NC
Posts: 217
Thanks: 129
Thanked 104 Times in 59 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
This is a curiosity, but I've got to ask. What's the point of reinventing the wheel?

ASSUMING all reports about the Supra's power rating are remotely accurate (roughly 335hp and 400 lb-ft torque) then why the hell would anyone bother giving the Supra anything bespoke? The BMW 3.0 liter six already makes 300-460 hp in various iterations.

I fail to see the logic here, assuming the Supra has less than 400 hp.
Because the highest trim model will have close to 400. Toyota wanted something "for the tuners", hence why they might have gone the CGI route. Again, this is all speculation, however, I am a believer that Toyota will deliver on this one.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
drew_kar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to drew_kar For This Useful Post:
gymratter (07-30-2018)
Old 07-30-2018, 01:39 PM   #2641
BRX
Senior Member
 
BRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Posts: 163
Thanks: 41
Thanked 103 Times in 60 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My guess is weight. They could have gone with a B58 but I guess it didn't cut it for the "tuner" aspect and reliablity to handle the power (even though I think the B58 has decent potential).

And an off the shelf +400hp BMW engine would have weight too much and ruined the handling aspect of the MKV specially if it was iron.

The middle ground was a light weight CGI "B58". That's my opinion anyway.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
BRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 01:39 PM   #2642
gymratter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: BMW
Location: TX
Posts: 1,373
Thanks: 1,087
Thanked 821 Times in 474 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
A70 has said the new engine has been tested to hold 700hp.
gymratter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gymratter For This Useful Post:
drew_kar (07-30-2018)
Old 07-30-2018, 01:45 PM   #2643
WolfpackS2k
Senior Member
 
WolfpackS2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: '06 Cayman S, '92 DB2 GS-R
Location: NC
Posts: 2,199
Thanks: 1,934
Thanked 1,111 Times in 654 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
^I'm guessing that's 700 reliably?

Because the BMW N54 could reliably do that 10 years ago. Though I don't know much about the B58.
__________________
'06 Porsche Cayman S
'13 SWP BRZ-L - Innovate Stage 1, Nameless over & down pipes, RevWorks UEL Header - RIP, claimed by VIR T10

'07 S2000 - DD & track rat - sold
'92 GS-R - 300k club member
WolfpackS2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 02:02 PM   #2644
BRX
Senior Member
 
BRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Posts: 163
Thanks: 41
Thanked 103 Times in 60 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
^I'm guessing that's 700 reliably?

Because the BMW N54 could reliably do that 10 years ago. Though I don't know much about the B58.
What he actually said is that it blew up at about 750hp. That could mean two things:

1. Toyota is trying to make an engine that could withstand a lot of power and are working to improve that 750hp number further by trail and error.

2. The new engine is actually finished and it can only handle so much before blowing up at 750hp.

Regardless, Toyota didn't go with the N54 simply because it weighs over 100lbs more than the B58 and we all know how Toyota is all about "handling and driving experience".

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
BRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 02:03 PM   #2645
funwheeldrive
Senior Member
 
funwheeldrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Firestorm Monogram
Location: Thurston County
Posts: 3,404
Thanks: 6,954
Thanked 2,937 Times in 1,379 Posts
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
What? No way. There's no way they can afford the weight of an iron block. BMW hasn't made one in 10 years, 3 engine generations ago.

I'm being this thing will have an aluminum block with steel sleeves, like all the other BMW motors.
Just wait and see
__________________
funwheeldrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 06:18 PM   #2646
Guff
Now w/ over 400 womprats!
 
Guff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: BRZ LZR
Location: Texas/Illinois
Posts: 4,760
Thanks: 10,388
Thanked 3,331 Times in 1,405 Posts
Mentioned: 290 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
This is a curiosity, but I've got to ask. What's the point of reinventing the wheel?

ASSUMING all reports about the Supra's power rating are remotely accurate (roughly 335hp and 400 lb-ft torque) then why the hell would anyone bother giving the Supra anything bespoke? The BMW 3.0 liter six already makes 300-460 hp in various iterations.

I fail to see the logic here, assuming the Supra has less than 400 hp.
As strange of an engineering ideology as it may be, Tada-San specifically has "Aftermarket Tuning Capable" as one of his main design goals and that is specifically in regards to the legacy of the JZ.

Now, I def agree that the B58 seemed like a good platform to do that with (it was a clean sheet design over the older n54/n55 motors), but apparently Tada-San and the team at Toyota had a number of grievances with the B58 design that they wanted to address. Hence, the larger scale redesign of the motor.

The other caveat is that there is still the possibility that the CGI version of the motor might not be available with the car at launch, but rather will be on the GRMN top-spec model, which may be fairly powerful (450hp+), and would benefit from the added strength. However, I have it on good authority that some of the mules running around as early as 2 years ago had the new "iron" motor in it and also weighed in at roughly 1380kg.

I'm digging every day for more info as to what we're getting in the production-spec cars, but Toyota has been locking down more and more of our sources as launch nears. My main takeaway is that Toyota has had far more of an aggressive role in shaping this car than the press lets off. There has been a significant Toyota engineering presence dedicated to this project and everything from the chassis, suspension, drivetrain, etc has been meticulously curated and modified to keep the car very Toyota in ideology.
__________________
"Sweet Subaru, sweet Subaru, send your BRZ unto me, for the roads of the unworthy must be baptized in speed and glory."
- The Ancient BRZ Sacrament
by Zaku
Guff is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Guff For This Useful Post:
stevesnj (07-30-2018), SuperDave (07-31-2018), WolfpackS2k (07-31-2018)
 
Reply

Tags
bmwforsuckers, boring-zzzzzzzzzzzzz, ft-1, hatch-y +1, morethanucanaffordpal, nomanualnogo, supra, toyota, watstheretailon1ofthose

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Next Toyota Supra Spotted Fishbed77 Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 12 09-07-2016 06:46 PM
Rebooted Toyota Supra prototype finally seen! MR2fan Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 24 09-07-2016 04:46 PM
Toyota to Debut New Hybrid R Sports Concept at the Frankfurt Show: New Supra teased? vh_supra26 Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 15 11-05-2015 10:27 PM
Toyota Supra Concept picture husker741 Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 18 01-14-2014 10:28 AM
Toyota FR-S : Official Name for the FT-86 Concept? Dark Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 155 08-04-2010 11:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.