Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

If you were to draw a waterline from the battery tray towards the rear of the car, you'll see that the base of the tray is almost at the same level as the cargo compartment. Additionally, to reduce the effect of rotational inertia you'd want the mass centralized between the axles. Given your requirements, it's looking like the rear seat area (seat removed) or the passenger foot well meets your needs.

Well, the tray is at the waterline, not the batteries. But yes, you are absolutely spot on about the rear seat area. I'm looking to move some stuff exactly there and anything else to the trunk.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Easiest way to drop 14lbs and move weight back to the center of the car is to empty the washer fluid reservoir and eat a lighter breakfast.

I knew it was inevitable that someone would troll the usual go on a diet BS so typical when they don't understand anything about weight transfer and inertia.

Next time you want your car to go fast, have Gandhi drive it for you. Same logic, or lack there of.

Sorry but you hit one of my car forum pet peeves....

Plus yours and others comments of areas of improvement are not mutually exclusive to my own. Mvoing the controller to the back w/ the pack fixes the cooling issue btw. If you want to settle for less, than that's a perfectly fine choice. When you look at development, one should consider all potential improvements, not just a few.

Plus, I said this kit is fine for those that like it as is, I said specifically that Rob should consider offering something for those that want exactly what I mentioned.

[TM]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Personally I'd rather see Rob's continued concentration on development of the aux charger, controller cooling, push-to-pass button (SPM), etc. To me, these are the features that will make the Phantom ESC even better suited to "performance" (e.g. track) usage.

Can one relocate/replace the WOT bracket (and remove the metal peice) away from the gas petal and near the steering wheel or dash and use it as a push-to-pass button? That way, I can choose when to activate it (at only one or two straights) and not have to worry about overheating the controller.

If that doesn't work. Can we move the WOT bracket away from the gas petal and use still advantage of the DR at the track without worrying about the system overheating. @waterbison777 said that when he was going WOT with the system in safe mode, it was running noticeably richer. Would the OTS Stage 1 tune work well when the using the ESC system just for DR? Or does the DR make enough difference to a stock car where a Stage 1 tune wouldn't work well for it?

I think I remember reading that Shiv's tune is based on engine load to determine when the ESC is activated (I might be wrong). Since the ESC may not be activated all the time during WOT, does this mean that a custom tune would be needed for either the push-to-pass or DR-only option?

Just throwing out ideas on how to make it work at the track, even if only sometimes. Or even not using it, but saving the need to swap back to the stock intake tube during track days.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by enwave

Guys, don't let someone else's opinion de-rail us too hard. I think he has a valid concern -- and if he has that concern the ESC in its retail form is not for him.

Nor is any other forced induction solution, except for maybe the rear mounted turbo that someone has been working on -- though I've heard it is still not quite there yet.

Thanks for understanding, I'm not criticizing the kit, just thinking out loud about my desires.

Don't think I haven't thought about the Phantom hybridized with that rear mount snail...

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by enwave

That said, the dual-dump setup requires you to move the starter to the back, which helps with some of what he's saying about weight. It also requires you to wire an external battery shutoff switch in most states and at most tracks.

I just don't think for my purposes (98% street, I MIGHT go to a track once or twice at some point), 15+/- pounds is going to make that much difference...

And I don't want any more of my tiny trunk taken up - the sub eats up enough of it. LOL.

[drewbot]

Hit the gym, lose 14 lbs

Or do this: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42284

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Mvoing the controller to the back w/ the pack fixes the cooling issue btw.

Isn't there also an issue of the batteries getting too cold in the winter and taking a long time to receive full benefit? I seem to recall reading that somewhere in the thread.

If so, then summertime = better in trunk and wintertime = better under hood.

But someone can comment/clarify.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by robwbright

Isn't there also an issue of the batteries getting too cold in the winter and taking a long time to receive full benefit? I seem to recall reading that somewhere in the thread.

If so, then summertime = better in trunk and wintertime = better under hood.

But someone can comment/clarify.

I did read that, that was max current dump I believe. I'm in Cali, but one could use a Subie battery warmer or something like it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/251509650153?lpid=82

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

I did read that, that was max current dump I believe. I'm in Cali, but one could use a Subie battery warmer or something like it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/251509650153?lpid=82

Most years this area is pretty temperate - 10-15 days a year above 90F and 10-15 days a year below 30F, so I don't anticipate a lot of issues either way... but time will tell.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by TM

Can one relocate/replace the WOT bracket (and remove the metal peice) away from the gas petal and near the steering wheel or dash and use it as a push-to-pass button? That way, I can choose when to activate it (at only one or two straights) and not have to worry about overheating the controller.

If that doesn't work. Can we move the WOT bracket away from the gas petal and use still advantage of the DR at the track without worrying about the system overheating. @waterbison777 said that when he was going WOT with the system in safe mode, it was running noticeably richer. Would the OTS Stage 1 tune work well when the using the ESC system just for DR? Or does the DR make enough difference to a stock car where a Stage 1 tune wouldn't work well for it?

I think I remember reading that Shiv's tune is based on engine load to determine when the ESC is activated (I might be wrong). Since the ESC may not be activated all the time during WOT, does this mean that a custom tune would be needed for either the push-to-pass or DR-only option?

Just throwing out ideas on how to make it work at the track, even if only sometimes. Or even not using it, but saving the need to swap back to the stock intake tube during track days.

These are all great questions and really get to the point that even minor changes can sometimes require great efforts to execute and run reliably.

I haven't dug much into how Shiv's ESC tune works off WOT vs. using an OTS Stg map so don't feel comfortable commenting on that. I've mostly been concerned with the effects of CA91 pump gas on both NA and ESC performance.

I think the push to pass/super pursuit mode is being tested right now by another user + Rob. Don't remember whom. I also don't know if that is a hardware only test or if Shiv has provided custom software for SPM/Push to Pass. Software could definitely be in play there.

[shif7i7down]

Kinda off topic on what you are talking about but... for the guys that already had the esc kit installed, what are the major supporting mods that you've done and did they help with trq and hp?
Also, would i benefit from a mfactory 4.67 final drive conversion.

Thanks

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by shif7i7down

Kinda off topic on what you are talking about but... for the guys that already had the esc kit installed, what are the major supporting mods that you've done and did they help with trq and hp?
Also, would i benefit from a mfactory 4.67 final drive conversion.

One supporting mod is really a must, and that is an ECU tune. Other supporting mods (header, air filter element) have shown to help in the higher rpm range (6000 to rl). The above conversation about weight helps all cars. A set of light weight rims pays off in acceleration and turn response, and they look good.

Regarding the 4.67 rear gears, it depends on the type of performance you are after. If 0-60 and 1/4 times are your thing, then yes. But that mod comes at the expense of higher cruise rpm, wear and fuel consumption. It's not a big deal - at 70 mph you'd be turning 3,425 rpm vs 3,000 - but it is real.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Regarding the 4.67 rear gears, it depends on the type of performance you are after. If 0-60 and 1/4 times are your thing, then yes.

If 0-60 is the/an issue... I'm not really familiar with the gear ratios on the car, but if I understand what you're saying, the 4.67 would be gearing the car lower to get out of the hole quicker.

As everyone knows, 2nd gear in the MT maxes out at 58-59mph stock - requiring a second gear change to 3rd gear to get to 60mph and increasing the 0-60 time by (guessing) a couple tenths.

I think I recall reading that tuning can be done relatively easily to raise the redline 100-200 rpm, thereby allowing 60 mph in 2nd gear.

I don't know how much switching to 4.67 gears would increase the acceleration, but I'm guessing you wouldn't want to raise the redline enough to hit 60mph in 2nd gear using a 4.67 final drive.

I suppose what I'm getting at is: If you can change the tune to hit 60mph in 2nd gear and thereby cut, say, 0.2 sec off your 0-60... but you can't do that with a 4.67 final drive, then...

Is the difference you gain in acceleration with the 4.67 final drive going to be sufficient to offset the decreased fuel mileage and wear on the engine?

[Luckrider]

Originally Posted by robwbright

If 0-60 is the/an issue... I'm not really familiar with the gear ratios on the car, but if I understand what you're saying, the 4.67 would be gearing the car lower to get out of the hole quicker.

As everyone knows, 2nd gear in the MT maxes out at 58-59mph stock - requiring a second gear change to 3rd gear to get to 60mph and increasing the 0-60 time by (guessing) a couple tenths.

I think I recall reading that tuning can be done relatively easily to raise the redline 100-200 rpm, thereby allowing 60 mph in 2nd gear.

I don't know how much switching to 4.67 gears would increase the acceleration, but I'm guessing you wouldn't want to raise the redline enough to hit 60mph in 2nd gear using a 4.67 final drive.

I suppose what I'm getting at is: If you can change the tune to hit 60mph in 2nd gear and thereby cut, say, 0.2 sec off your 0-60... but you can't do that with a 4.67 final drive, then...

Is the difference you gain in acceleration with the 4.67 final drive going to be sufficient to offset the decreased fuel mileage and wear on the engine?

Modding a car directly for a 0-60 time is useless though since it is only used as a metric and provides no direct correlation between these proposed changes and track times be it the strip or circuit.