HKS EL or Tomei EL?

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Been proven over and over again to have as much if not more best bang for buck. Cost 20%-100% more (although cheaper options 150-B 1180$ or 250-B 1350$ still show in stock to some vendors) and gives 20%-100% more gains. And thus will be more likely to satisfy your power desires and not have to keep throwing more money at it for more mods to never be satisfied.

Once you get a taste of some gains you always want more. And you think I just need 1 more mod to be satisfied. But like the addicts we all are,
you will always just want 1 more mod. So just get the best from the start. I have first hand experience going down the rabbit hole. Although luckily i got the ace to begin with.

Also why I said to just charge it. Bcs NA is just a tease. Or get the ace now with plans for future supercharger.

But we don't even know his goals. I've driven ACE powered cars on a few occasions and while nice and a noticeable difference imo I couldn't justify spending 2-3 time what I did on my current set-up. Might be worth it for you and OP but I wouldn't. And everyone knows NA power is a money pit. To chase those last 10HP costs double what the first 10HP cost

I will give you ACE is the best sounding EL hands down though

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

I've seen only one direct comparison against a UEL header. It did ok, not 100% gains lol. Heck what does 100% gains even mean?!?

OP has his mind set on HKS or Tomei. I'd personally lean toward Tomei, build quality might be a bit better, but both are good headers.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

This has been compared and discussed dozens of times. Your right it’s hard to find a 100% direct comparison of any header, or any mod for that matter. Most people don’t dyno one header swap header and dyno again same day for as close to a 1-1 comparison.

But comparing dozens of before and after (stock vs header) and looking at the % increase, Example some cars dyno stock at 176hp and after header and tune dyno 196hp, another car dynos stock 150hp and after header and tune hit 185hp. Looking at both HP increase and most importantly percentage increase.

The first being 20hp at 11% increase the second being 35hp at 23% increase. Over double the percentage increase.

Most people unfortunately just look at peak vs peak numbers and don’t see the real difference.

So yes ace has been proven time and time again to make 20%-100% (double) the gains vs other headers, and comparing percentage increase to price, it is actually egual to if not greater then any other header bang for buck.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

This has been compared and discussed dozens of times. Your right it’s hard to find a 100% direct comparison of any header, or any mod for that matter. Most people don’t dyno one header swap header and dyno again same day for as close to a 1-1 comparison.

But comparing dozens of before and after (stock vs header) and looking at the % increase, Example some cars dyno stock at 176hp and after header and tune dyno 196hp, another car dynos stock 150hp and after header and tune hit 185hp. Looking at both HP increase and most importantly percentage increase.

The first being 20hp at 11% increase the second being 35hp at 23% increase. Over double the percentage increase.

Most people unfortunately just look at peak vs peak numbers and don’t see the real difference.

So yes ace has been proven time and time again to make 20%-100% (double) the gains vs other headers, and comparing percentage increase to price, it is actually egual to if not greater then any other header bang for buck.

Your math and assumptions are inaccurate, if you want to debate we can, let's just not do it in the OP's thread. Don't think he's interested in the propaganda

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Your math and assumptions are inaccurate, if you want to debate we can, let's just not do it in the OP's thread. Don't think he's interested in the propaganda

Quick 2 second google search. For comparison sake let’s say a custom tune (license+tune) is 700$

HKS EL on 92octane - before 172hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 195
23hp - 13% increase, at 650+700 / 13 = 103$ per 1% increase.

ACE 350 on 91octane - before 165hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 193
28hp - 17% increase, 1650+700 / 17 = 138$ per 1% increase.

That is peak vs peak comparisons.

Then comparing torque at 4000rpm

HKS before 122, after 140
18ft-lbs - 14.7% increase, 1350 / 14.7 = 92$ per 1% increase

ACE before 121 after 152
30ft-lbs - 25.6% increase, 2350 / 25.6 = 92$ per 1% increase.

So realistically ACE is about equal to HKS for bang for buck despite being 1000$ more.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Quick 2 second google search. For comparison sake let’s say a custom tune (license+tune) is 700$

HKS EL on 92octane - before 172hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 195
23hp - 13% increase, at 650+700 / 13 = 103$ per 1% increase.

ACE 350 on 91octane - before 165hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 193
28hp - 17% increase, 1650+700 / 17 = 138$ per 1% increase.

That is peak vs peak comparisons.

Then comparing torque at 4000rpm

HKS before 122, after 140
18ft-lbs - 14.7% increase, 1350 / 14.7 = 92$ per 1% increase

ACE before 121 after 152
30ft-lbs - 25.6% increase, 2350 / 25.6 = 92$ per 1% increase.

So realistically ACE is about equal to HKS for bang for buck despite being 1000$ more.

At the end of the day you're still spending $2300 vs $1300 (though I could argue finding used non-ACE set-ups are easier making the cost differential greater. I spent $350 on my Tomei UEL and $300 on my OFT.) Not saying it isn't worth it but saying it's easier on the wallet is still not accurate IMO

[weederr33]

Just buy the HKS and call it a day

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Quick 2 second google search. For comparison sake let’s say a custom tune (license+tune) is 700$

HKS EL on 92octane - before 172hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 195
23hp - 13% increase, at 650+700 / 13 = 103$ per 1% increase.

ACE 350 on 91octane - before 165hp after with a custom ecutek dyno tune 193
28hp - 17% increase, 1650+700 / 17 = 138$ per 1% increase.

That is peak vs peak comparisons.

Then comparing torque at 4000rpm

HKS before 122, after 140
18ft-lbs - 14.7% increase, 1350 / 14.7 = 92$ per 1% increase

ACE before 121 after 152
30ft-lbs - 25.6% increase, 2350 / 25.6 = 92$ per 1% increase.

So realistically ACE is about equal to HKS for bang for buck despite being 1000$ more.

If you only drive at 4k you're doing well.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

If you only drive at 4k you're doing well.

Peak HP numbers where around 7k,
And peak torque differences where around 4K. Still a similar trend across the entire power band in comparing the differences.

Could obviously do the math / differences for every 500rpm intervals to see the entire power band difference. But anyone can google and see the clear difference in dyno comparisons.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by finch1750

At the end of the day you're still spending $2300 vs $1300 (though I could argue finding used non-ACE set-ups are easier making the cost differential greater. I spent $350 on my Tomei UEL and $300 on my OFT.) Not saying it isn't worth it but saying it's easier on the wallet is still not accurate IMO

The point is bang for buck is relatively the same, but your maximizing and achieving your potential without leaving anything on the table with the ace.

I see the a lot of people trying to save money on a header but then spending 1k$ on exhaust and 2-300$ on frontpipe. And then getting a cai and the list goes on. When they could have got the ace to begin with and have more power then all that combined. Or toss all that onto the ace setup later for even greater gains.

Also seen used ace headers go for 1100 and add your 350 oft. And redo the math for 1450 vs 650, although neither of those setups will have their tunes optimized. Admittedly the 350$ header would be closer to being optimized on a ots tune.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Peak HP numbers where around 7k,
And peak torque differences where around 4K. Still a similar trend across the entire power band in comparing the differences.

Could obviously do the math / differences for every 500rpm intervals to see the entire power band difference. But anyone can google and see the clear difference in dyno comparisons.

There is a great video about the ACE and if it was worth it or not. Guy didn't gain all that much when he swapped from a tuned cheap brand header. He gained, but.... it's a good read.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

There is a great video about the ACE and if it was worth it or not. Guy didn't gain all that much when he swapped from a tuned cheap brand header. He gained, but.... it's a good read.

Yes I’ve seen Justin’s video. He had a revworks (700$) header. Which I believe utilizes shorter runners and a 4-1 design giving it more top end compared to most 4-2-1. Either way yes ace only gained 3whp peak, but if you look at the dyno comparison it isn’t even close. At 5k rpm and below and 6500rpm and above the ace just smashes it. Only between 5-6500rpm did the revworks keep up. And his final thoughts/conclusion was the ace is worth the money/upgrade.

[Lantanafrs2]

Op, buy either or. These arguments are asinine. You re car will be a lot stronger than stock either way.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Yes I’ve seen Justin’s video. He had a revworks (700$) header. Which I believe utilizes shorter runners and a 4-1 design giving it more top end compared to most 4-2-1. Either way yes ace only gained 3whp peak, but if you look at the dyno comparison it isn’t even close. At 5k rpm and below and 6500rpm and above the ace just smashes it. Only between 5-6500rpm did the revworks keep up. And his final thoughts/conclusion was the ace is worth the money/upgrade.

I cant find the thread, but the dyno plots are not as drastic or great as you're claiming.

Ace is great with impressive gains, but the campaigning as end all be all is even more impressive.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I cant find the thread, but the dyno plots are not as drastic or great as you're claiming.

Ace is great with impressive gains, but the campaigning as end all be all is even more impressive.

What impressive is how simple and easy google and the search function are to find whatever your looking for. Like header dynos and comparison and debates. Every other week another header forum pops up. All the info is at your finger tips already just go take two seconds to find. like this dyno of the revworks vs ace comparison your referring to. Enjoy!