Car & Driver: Is Premium Gas Worth It?

[LotsaMiles]

Originally Posted by why?

You can run 91 on this car just fine. Better yet sounds like a good reason to switch to E85 if you can get it.

That is very good to know.

[LotsaMiles]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

On average here
87 = $4.67
91 = $5.17
93 = $5.40


And before anybody says "well that is only XXX in US $" we are not paying in US $ so exchange rate is meaningless here.


If you are paying more than $30 a gallon then yes you are getting ripped off. Even Europe isn't that bad.

That was one messed up sentence I typed. I must have been on crack. I keep promising to give that stuff up.

I meant if premium is more than $.30 (thirty cents) more per gallon than regular. Right now, regular here is at $2.25 a gallon, with premium at $2.85 (should be $2.55).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by LotsaMiles

That was one messed up sentence I typed. I must have been on crack. I keep promising to give that stuff up.

I meant if premium is more than $.30 (thirty cents) more per gallon than regular. Right now, regular here is at $2.25 a gallon, with premium at $2.85 (should be $2.55).

omg how will you survive spending an extra $6 per tank of gas? That can get you nearly around the block in your Silverado.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by LotsaMiles

Looks like I might be selling this car.

Not sure how the price difference between fuel types adds up to selling the car and making fiscal sense. I just did the calculation on my car, and assuming the price differential between regular and premium was $0.50 it has cost me about 1.5 cents per mile (or $2,263) over the 150,000 miles I've driven my car to use premium.

That is offset by the fact I'm getting better gas mileage than the car I replaced. During those 150,000 miles I've saved $9,900 with better fuel economy, after adjusting for the cost of higher octane between the two.

Seems to me then, if I was going to "save" money by selling the FRS and getting a different car, I would have to purchase one at the same value as I sell the FRS for (what is the book value on a 2013 FRS with 150,000 miles?), it would have to use regular fuel, and it would have to average 33MPG in everyday driving (my average over the life of my car).

Don't think I could find a car that meets that criteria I would be happy with, the ROI just isn't there.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Slammillionaire

An article about premium vs regular gas that makes no mention of compression ratios? WTF?

CR's aren't as relevant to ICE fuel octane requirement as more manufacturers move from the Otto cycle to the Atkinson cycle to improve thermal efficiency. It works especially well on hybrids where the electric motor fills in the low-speed torque curve.

For example, my wife's Camry Hybrid has a 14:1 CR yet is spec'd to run on 87 octane yet total system horsepower and torque is more than the gasser car while rated up to 51/53 mpg.

I'll try a few tanks of 92 octane to see if there's any difference in mpg but aren't expecting much. They're split about 50/50 over at PriusChat whether it has no or minimal effect on perceived power output or measurable mpg gains. It looks more dependent on ethanol content than octane rating in their Atkinson cycle ICE's.

Either way, the test won't cost enough to worry about. The HyCam is saving her about $1,000 per year in fuel expense compared to her last ICE V-6 Camry. And Toyota engineers say the HyCam is the best handling of all Camrys with better F/R weight distribution. I agree, the new HyCam would give the heavier V-6 a run especially through the mountains with no lapse rate due to battery boost.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Atmo

CR's aren't as relevant to ICE fuel octane requirement as more manufacturers move from the Otto cycle to the Atkinson cycle to improve thermal efficiency. It works especially well on hybrids where the electric motor fills in the low-speed torque curve.

I'll try a few tanks of 92 octane to see if there's any difference in mpg but aren't expecting much. They're split about 50/50 over at PriusChat whether it has no or minimal effect on perceived power output or measurable mpg gains. It looks more dependent on ethanol content than octane rating in their Atkinson cycle ICE's.

There should be little gas mileage difference on the new cars, but you'll get more power with high octane fuel. Because they have VVT-iE, the "Atkinson ratio" is much higher at low load, and the new head design also allows increases the EGR ratio. They're also fairly powerful engines compared to older generations, so most of the time on the road you'll be at low load with the cylinders filled 30% with EGR and the cam bleeding off almost half the charge for an effective compression ratio of like 6 lol. Even at fairly high power, there's cooled EGR being used to absorb heat and limit knock.

On the Hybrid, I would guess that premium gas doesn't even get you much meaningful power. The "e-CVT" will just rev the engine higher instead of tap into the extra torque available. With the pedal floored and the engine near the rev limit, it does give you max output, and there premium gas gets you a couple hp which isn't that impressive (e.g. 205hp vs 201hp on the A25A-FKS).

[LotsaMiles]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

omg how will you survive spending an extra $6 per tank of gas? That can get you nearly around the block in your Silverado.

Good point. It's a matter of principle. I don't like being ripped off.

And this speaks to why the FRS, which I've owned since 2013, has 172k miles on it, and the Silverado, which I've had since 2012, has 6,000 more miles on it than when I bought it.

I've always been a gas miser. It's why I drove a Vega GT, an Opel GT and the little Mazdas. Gas mileage has always been a major factor in what car I drive. When I HAVE TO get a gas guzzler, I drive it as rarely as possible. Almost half of the miles my truck has on it are miles driven on my property, from the house to the barn, to the trees I cut down, etc.

[LotsaMiles]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not sure how the price difference between fuel types adds up to selling the car and making fiscal sense.

For me it's not about fiscal sense. It's about knowingly getting ripped off. It's a matter of principle. And when I do sell it, I'll almost certainly commute in the iA my wife currently drives, and she'll get our new car.

I'll never own another car that requires anything but regular.

To be clear, I CAN do this because, well, after putting 173k on a car like this, and going through 8 sets of tires like the Michellin PSS's, on amazing Kentucky back roads, well, I've sorta had my fill. It's run its course. I'm just kinda over it.

I've had the convertible, the motorcycle, the sports cars, the motorhome. And now my wife and I are getting a nice Sienna minivan and touring the US and Canada.

I see all my cars (and everything else I own) as tools. This tool was a good one. Driving it was not only fun, but it was increadibly cheap to drive and I got respect from other drivers - and that matters. It's the sort of car you can drive by Bill Gates house and not get pulled over just for being there (that actually happened to me in my daughter's Dodge Omni back in the 90's, and I lived two blocks from Paul Allen at the time)

But I need a different tool now. Well, next year, actually, when I retire.

BTW, my high school buddy races a Porsche in Phoenix. He doesn't take my car very seriously, but then, he jets around in a Mini. I don't do German cars.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by LotsaMiles

For me it's not about fiscal sense. It's about knowingly getting ripped off. It's a matter of principle. And when I do sell it, I'll almost certainly commute in the iA my wife currently drives, and she'll get our new car.

All makes sense. Of course, you could just put regular in the 86. It will run on it (I've had to do it several times, once when it was new and the dealership filled it up for me with the wrong octane, and a couple of times during the colonial pipeline outages when that was all that is available). Frankly, I couldn't tell the difference and the car didn't seem to mind. I'd have to go back and look at my records but I don't think it even impacted MPG outside the normal margin of error from one tank to the next.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by LotsaMiles

It's the sort of car you can drive by Bill Gates house and not get pulled over just for being there (that actually happened to me in my daughter's Dodge Omni back in the 90's, and I lived two blocks from Paul Allen at the time)

I had a similar experience once in the 90's at Mar-a-Lago (Donald Trump's house in Palm Beach). My wife and some friends were cruising through Palm Beach at night. We made a wrong turn and ended up on the property while there was some party going on. You couldn't turn around in the drive, so we had to goall the way in and drive through the circle and go back out. We were in a car that "didn't fit" and basically got chased by armed guards while we tried to get out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LotsaMiles

For me it's not about fiscal sense. It's about knowingly getting ripped off. It's a matter of principle. And when I do sell it, I'll almost certainly commute in the iA my wife currently drives, and she'll get our new car.

I'll never own another car that requires anything but regular.

To be clear, I CAN do this because, well, after putting 173k on a car like this, and going through 8 sets of tires like the Michellin PSS's, on amazing Kentucky back roads, well, I've sorta had my fill. It's run its course. I'm just kinda over it.

I've had the convertible, the motorcycle, the sports cars, the motorhome. And now my wife and I are getting a nice Sienna minivan and touring the US and Canada.

I see all my cars (and everything else I own) as tools. This tool was a good one. Driving it was not only fun, but it was increadibly cheap to drive and I got respect from other drivers - and that matters. It's the sort of car you can drive by Bill Gates house and not get pulled over just for being there (that actually happened to me in my daughter's Dodge Omni back in the 90's, and I lived two blocks from Paul Allen at the time)

But I need a different tool now. Well, next year, actually, when I retire.

BTW, my high school buddy races a Porsche in Phoenix. He doesn't take my car very seriously, but then, he jets around in a Mini. I don't do German cars.

So what it boils down to is that you are now bored with the car and the fact it uses slightly more expensive fuel is a way to rationalize replacing it.


Paying more than .30 a gallon more does not mean you are getting "ripped off" it just means that in your market they don't sell enough of it to bring the price down. You want cheaper premium than either get more locals to buy it or move to where it is cheaper.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So what it boils down to is that you are now bored with the car and the fact it uses slightly more expensive fuel is a way to rationalize replacing it.


Paying more than .30 a gallon more does not mean you are getting "ripped off" it just means that in your market they don't sell enough of it to bring the price down. You want cheaper premium than either get more locals to buy it or move to where it is cheaper.

Yeah kind of dumb if gas price is the motivating factor. I feel if you're going to complain about gas prices, don't buy a car that requires premium, or don't get a car that requires that upkeep.

Sounds like he's bored with the car, so its run its course. THAT's his motivating factor, or at least should be the one that wants to make him replace the car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Yeah kind of dumb if gas price is the motivating factor. I feel if you're going to complain about gas prices, don't buy a car that requires premium, or don't get a car that requires that upkeep.

Sounds like he's bored with the car, so its run its course. THAT's his motivating factor, or at least should be the one that wants to make him replace the car.

[RToyo86]

I'll admit I bought my car without considering premium fuel. I've run it on previous cars before, but after using regular on my last car it slipped my mind.

I had a "oh yeah gas is gonna be more expensive" moment around the time of taking delivery.
Smiles per gallon are always worth it, even spending $15 dollars more a fill. If we get killed on carbon taxes again I may cry.


Ran 91 for a bit, Then switched to 94 and noticed the motor felt smoother through revs. I haven't switched back to 91 in a while. I should do it again to make sure I didn't placebo my self.