Edelbrock E-force Owner's thread and FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)

[NotSoJDM]

Originally Posted by 86fun

We've been making a lot of changes and I haven't wanted to throw an unknown factor into the mix during those changes. It's also not a real solution, even if it does help... it might just mask the real problem. It also takes a long time to dilute the fuel back to regular 91 and driving the car kind of sucks at the moment.

I agree that it wouldn't be a solution, as I don't think the suggestion was intended to be. Just as I suggested going with a DT, it is a way to determine that your knock events are actual knock events, and that they are being caused by fuel quality. Without testing that theory, you still have a large list of possibilities. Personally, I think a bunch of tune revisions is not a great way to go about finding the issue. You end up with a pretty convoluted diagnostic path, with variables changing with every rev. And as any tuner will tell you 99% of the time, there is an underlying hardware issue that is causing them to chase their tale or mask the true concern via the tune.

To me, taking a systemic approach, and crossing off certain physical variables would help narrow down the concern faster.

- Is fuel quality a factor in the problem? Boost octane to confirm
- Is the tune a factor in the problem? Try a different tuner

After you do those two things, you have eliminated the largest source of head scratching to this point. It's been weeks doing tune revs, and you could have isolated your problem in a matter of a few days using this approach.

If you still hadn't found the problem from there, you have then reduced your scope to mechanical issue, and can diagnose from there.

[NotSoJDM]

@86fun if there is anything mechanical/electrical that you want me to check out on my kit, I'm happy to do that as well. For example, sensor values or pics of parts of my install, etc.

[BigFatFlip]

@NotSoJDM to @86fun 's woes

[86fun]

LOL, thanks for the help guys!


I'm pretty bummed because I bought this particular kit so I would not have to mess with my car a bunch and deal with problems like I've had with past modifications on my turbo cars... so much for that idea. I also started with basically a brand new, very low mile, unmodified, untouched in anyway car, and the kit doesn't work on it. Crazy frustrating and completely the opposite experience than I had been sold on and hoped for....

[djdnz]

So I was going through your logs, this was the second one I looked at.
http://datazap.me/u/djdnz/86fun2?log...=950-958&hg=31

I'm not an expert on tuning, but I found it weird that the sequence of events that occurs is as follows:

Accelerating ~2300rpm, AFR commanded plunges from 14.7 to 11. Just a moment after that fuel system status switches to 4, knock correction learn value drops, the advance multiplier drops, direct injection time spikes, short and long term trim fuel trims flatline at 0, and the actual AFR eventually falls towards the commanded value.

So what is causing the AFR to switch at partial throttle, no change in load, at such a low RPM, with no drastic change in MAP or MAF? @Edelbrock LLC can you share what triggers are set for the commanded AFR?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by djdnz

So I was going through your logs, this was the second one I looked at.
http://datazap.me/u/djdnz/86fun2?log...=950-958&hg=31

I'm not an expert on tuning, but I found it weird that the sequence of events that occurs is as follows:

Accelerating ~2300rpm, AFR commanded plunges from 14.7 to 11. Just a moment after that fuel system status switches to 4, knock correction learn value drops, the advance multiplier drops, direct injection time spikes, short and long term trim fuel trims flatline at 0, and the actual AFR eventually falls towards the commanded value.

So what is causing the AFR to switch at partial throttle, no change in load, at such a low RPM, with no drastic change in MAP or MAF? @Edelbrock LLC can you share what triggers are set for the commanded AFR?

I don't think they will share that.

However, based on what I saw in @86fun's logs, check out his MAF readings vs the MAP readings, and the trends, compared to accelerator angle and throttle position.

It doesn't add up.

That's why I recommended checking the wiring and cleaning the MAF. The MAF reading is erroneous.

[Edelbrock LLC]

Originally Posted by djdnz

So I was going through your logs, this was the second one I looked at.
http://datazap.me/u/djdnz/86fun2?log...=950-958&hg=31

I'm not an expert on tuning, but I found it weird that the sequence of events that occurs is as follows:

Accelerating ~2300rpm, AFR commanded plunges from 14.7 to 11. Just a moment after that fuel system status switches to 4, knock correction learn value drops, the advance multiplier drops, direct injection time spikes, short and long term trim fuel trims flatline at 0, and the actual AFR eventually falls towards the commanded value.

So what is causing the AFR to switch at partial throttle, no change in load, at such a low RPM, with no drastic change in MAP or MAF? @Edelbrock LLC can you share what triggers are set for the commanded AFR?

CSG Mike is correct. Unfortunately, that is proprietary information we are unable to disclose. However, our whole team is very aware of the issue 86fun is claiming. We are working around the clock to have his car up to his expectations even if it means developing a tune from scratch.

We have also offered to have his car brought here so that we can see what is going on. There is only so much you can determine with logs alone.

[86fun]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I don't think they will share that.

However, based on what I saw in @86fun's logs, check out his MAF readings vs the MAP readings, and the trends, compared to accelerator angle and throttle position.

It doesn't add up.

That's why I recommended checking the wiring and cleaning the MAF. The MAF reading is erroneous.

Mike, can you expand on what you see in the logs, I'm not quite understanding it exactly. I look at the logs and see a pretty close 1:1 relationship between the MAF and MAP values. There are some subtle scaling differences though, mostly at very low throttle openings. Being that the MAF and the MAP are separated by things that could change the air volume and pressure (mainly the throttle body) I'm not surprised to see those small differences. What log and time were you looking at? This sure would be a nice and easy fix if that were it!

[86fun]

Originally Posted by Edelbrock LLC

CSG Mike is correct. Unfortunately, that is proprietary information we are unable to disclose. However, our whole team is very aware of the issue 86fun is claiming. We are working around the clock to have his car up to his expectations even if it means developing a tune from scratch.

We have also offered to have his car brought here so that we can see what is going on. There is only so much you can determine with logs alone.

Edelbrock has been great with response and working with me on the issue. Offering to look at the car is awesome as well! Unfortunately for me I live outside a reasonable range to get the car there.


I'm still shocked that a brand new bone stock car in perfect working order is having so much trouble with the kit installed... I can't wait until we get to the solution!!!! I'm so done with not being able to drive my car and spend countless hours messing with it without progress.


Tonight I'll be testing another tune adjustment and hopefully it will shed some light on the problem better...


Thanks for your help Edelbrock!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 86fun

Mike, can you expand on what you see in the logs, I'm not quite understanding it exactly. I look at the logs and see a pretty close 1:1 relationship between the MAF and MAP values. There are some subtle scaling differences though, mostly at very low throttle openings. Being that the MAF and the MAP are separated by things that could change the air volume and pressure (mainly the throttle body) I'm not surprised to see those small differences. What log and time were you looking at? This sure would be a nice and easy fix if that were it!

Compare MAF and MAP values when the fuel trims hiccup and swing hard. I used the log with the largest file size, but I would imagine it's in all of them. While the readings diverge on those two, note that driver input (accelerator input), and throttle position, are not changing enough to warrant that kind of swing.

[Nitro22]

Originally Posted by 86fun

One thing is really clear to me, the more people I talk to with this kit they explain a very similar experience with the low RPM hesitation, I'm beginning to believe mine is not just a fluke anymore.

-E-Force Supercharger
-Borla UEL header
-Run California 91 with 1/2 bottle of Octane Booster each tank

-FNG Delicious Tune
Special Tuning Requests:
1. Quicken Accelerator Response
2. Warm Idle: 900rpms
3. Rev Limit raised to 7850rpm

I have been lucky enough to not have any low RPM hesitation with this setup. The throttle response with the Delicious tune is very crisp and exactly what I was looking for. Some would say it's a little too responsive at first, but your right foot gets used to it. It's this feature plus the bump in power overall that makes the Delicious tune complete this supercharger IMHO.

Besides that, it still sounds like there is something going on with your car. It is commendable that Edelbrock is willing to have your car brought to them to diagnose. If I were you, I would find a way to make that happen.

[djdnz]

So I took a log for myself, after switching from Chevron to 76, thinking that might help - doesn't look like it.

My first 12 minute log looks pretty good, I don't see anything abnormal
http://datazap.me/u/djdnz/feb-13-2016?log=0&data=6-15


The second log is where things get interesting, so after another 9 minutes or so my advance multiplier was happy at 1. All the sudden it starts plummeting, each time it does the RPM's are around 2300-2500. You can feel the car shudder a little each time.

http://datazap.me/u/djdnz/feb-13-201...zoom=5752-9525


So that is issue number one. Issue number two has been elusive to me to catch while logging but I finally got it this time! So as I'm cruising through my parking garage, sometimes when I put the clutch in the RPM's hang around 2000rpm as I'm holding the clutch. You can see it in the second attached image, notice accelerator is at 0 yet RPM hovers at 2000rpm, at this point the clutch is depressed. As soon as I let the clutch back out, the RPM's will fall. To replicate this, all I have to do is apply some throttle to get RPM's near 2k and then put the clutch in and remove my foot from the throttle. The RPM's will hang like this for 10-15 seconds unless I a) apply throttle, b) let the clutch back out. The blips you see are me recreating the scenario by applying throttle. I'm going to send this log into @Edelbrock LLC to see what they think.

http://datazap.me/u/djdnz/feb-13-201...zoom=1474-2645

[j123ic]

@86fun inspect your front o2 sensor for fouling or damage. If you have a buddy with a BRZ and FR-S, ask if you can swap o2 sensor really quick and log.

This o2 sensor is easy enough to access without having to remove anything if you have an o2 sensor socket and a breaker bar.

[86fun]

Quick update. I've been testing additional tune modifications and logging.


Unfortunately my ECUTek died, I can no longer connect to the car with it. The lights light up and even turn red when trying to connect but fails every time. My other OBD reader works perfectly, so I'm assuming it's the ECUTek unit that died. Anyone have that happen? The car still runs as it has been. Maybe this has been the problem all along... it never did connect consistently. By the way, it will flash the car with a new firmware no problem, it just won't connect with "Map Access". Weird.