SARD ITB (4 Throttle) News!

[Shady195]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Don't forget the sound. If an ITB setup can make the FA20 sound better (i.e. 4AG w/ 20V ITB) then it's a worthwhile mod, especially with the right intake to maximize the sound.

So true because the FA20 sounds like garbage.

Call me silly, but as a drifter, i want people to think my car looks and sounds good. unfortunately, even with boost the FA20 sounds like a turd

I haven't heard a single one thats made me "break my neck" as they say that wasn't some ungodly built thing that revs past 8 grand

[Shady195]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

This engine does not like to rev that high without more work.

Originally Posted by mav1178

Tell that to Nissan, who put this type of system on the R32-34 Skyline GT-R as a factory design with a rev limit of 7500, same as our engines.

This type of mod isn't for the average end user, it's for specific types of people that have some need that can't be addressed via other aftermarket parts. Judging by the type of responses these two ITB threads have given, it's safe to say 99% of the end users will be happy with a good header paired up with a tune and factory intake box.

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Apples to oranges.
You're neglecting the fact that's a boosted motor.

@Tokay444 you're extremely dense

@mav1178 i think in your quest to prove your point, you also missed where this totally went wrong

@Tokay444 worded it things poorly. Your statement basically reads as a big broad general statement that ITB's are useless if you're not revving the engine to the moon

@mav1178 Took the statement at face value with it poor wording and assumes @Tokay444 is an idiot

The both of you continue to bicker arguing over a misunderstanding neither one of you has actually seemed to grasp yet.

@Tokay444 is trying to say that this is useless on a stock NA Car, and not worth the money

@mav1178 is trying to explain its purpose and overall gain regardless of the motor setp

Thats at least what I got out of it, if nothing else it was entertaining

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Spuds

... The interesting bit is what ITBs let you do with the rest of the intake system for both NA and FI.

Say you were to make a larger intake plenum for some reason without changing anything else on the car. When you open the (single) throttle, the higher pressure air has to fill that space first before you can fill the cylinders. With ITBs you can tune the intake(s) however you want, and still have fantastic throttle response.

Exactly! It's more complicated than just moving the throttle body. The plenum will allow for resonance tuning.

[ajh88]

Originally Posted by armstrom

I don't understand the obsession with HP/Torque gains... That's a very crude way to measure the value of a mod.

Amen. Plenty more to this car than power; frankly you bought the wrong car if Hp/torque is all you care about. These ITBs are the kind of mod you do to improve response, sound, have something cool, or max out an NA build.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by armstrom

I don't understand the obsession with HP/Torque gains... That's a very crude way to measure the value of a mod. WOT throttle dyno runs are fine for showing raw power increase but they are incapable of measuring things like throttle response. Sometimes a modification is worth it to the buyer just because it moves the torque curve around a little bit. People spend money on all sorts of mods that cannot show gains on a dyno: lightweight flywheels, lightweight pulleys, carbon fiber driveshafts, different rear-end ratios, you name it.

Why bash the product? If the vendor (SARD or Greddy) were in here making wild claims about the product then there might be something to say. If this mod isn't for you, then move along. People spend twice as much as these things cost just on paint and body work all the time. No one is forcing anyone to buy this product.
-Matt

Except lightweight pulley, flywheels, and drive shafts WILL show gains on a dyno.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Shady195

@Tokay444 you're extremely dense

@mav1178 i think in your quest to prove your point, you also missed where this totally went wrong

@Tokay444 worded it things poorly. Your statement basically reads as a big broad general statement that ITB's are useless if you're not revving the engine to the moon

@mav1178 Took the statement at face value with it poor wording and assumes @Tokay444 is an idiot

The both of you continue to bicker arguing over a misunderstanding neither one of you has actually seemed to grasp yet.

@Tokay444 is trying to say that this is useless on a stock NA Car, and not worth the money

@mav1178 is trying to explain its purpose and overall gain regardless of the motor setp

Thats at least what I got out of it, if nothing else it was entertaining

@Tokay444 didn't make the the original statement that ITBs wouldn't be good below 8500rpm.

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by PuslarBrrrz

Our heads flow pretty well as it turns out. The cams are limiting for NA but still pretty aggressive for stock. There was a shop that ran 13.5 comp pistons with an other wise stock block and made 215-220whp. This is with our standard E85, tune and exhaust mods our course.

"made 215-220whp." I call this BS! tell me the name of the shop please! and their mods, as well as the type of dyno they used!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Except lightweight pulley, flywheels, and drive shafts WILL show gains on a dyno.

Depends the gear you make the dyno. In 5th or 6th gear will not show anything.


Apart from this, I read different comments from different members. It looks that some people don't really understand why some of us insist to stay NA.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Depends the gear you make the dyno. In 5th gear will not show anything.

Also depends on the resistance of the dyno. I imagine some have greater resistance (in whatever form that takes) than others. But we digress...

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

"made 215-220whp." I call this BS! tell me the name of the shop please! and their mods, as well as the type of dyno they used!

E85 is wonderful stuff when you are just talking power and tuning. I think 220 whp is not too difficult on e85 even without messing with internals. Granted, each dyno and day is a bit different so your questions are fair.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

"made 215-220whp." I call this BS! tell me the name of the shop please! and their mods, as well as the type of dyno they used!

I think 215-220 is reasonable for 13.5:1 comp with Ethanol, considering 205whp is already done on a stock engine with just an Ace header and ethanol. OEM front pipe, OEM exhaust, OEM intake!

[Dr. BRZ]

On el headers, full exhaust system, pullies, intake, throttle body spacer, air duct snorkel and e85 i made 205whp and 165torque so hmm.....

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Dr. BRZ

On el headers, full exhaust system, pullies, intake, throttle body spacer, air duct snorkel and e85 i made 205whp and 165torque so hmm.....

Would you happen to be running aftermarket wheels and/or tires? Was it a hot day? Ots tune or custom? Catback, intake stuff, and pulleys aren't going to make much difference compared to just headers anyway.

Unless you are aware of all this and being sarcastic, in which case it didn't work...

[PuslarBrrrz]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

"made 215-220whp." I call this BS! tell me the name of the shop please! and their mods, as well as the type of dyno they used!

I don't blame the skepticism.lol I ran across the dyno on a 86 Fackbook group, can't find it since it was months ago but it clearly stated 13.5-1 compression as a mod on the dyno print out. I have a few dyno charts saved in the 215-220 whp range but they don't list the mods like the one I saw in particular. PTuning and DBW were the shops.