FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I notice something about Hyundai. If there car seems like it costs more than a competitor it's because they are offering more. I remember when Hyundai came out with the 3.8 base model for $25,000 a lot of people felt it was overpriced vs a Mustang V6. But when you actually did some investigating you find out why.


IRS suspension vs LRA
Cloth seats vs Leather seats
Driveshaft that can't go past 115 mph vs a driveshaft that can go to 160+ mph
Automatic CC vs Manual CC
Fog lights vs None
5y/60k Warranty vs 10y/100k Warranty

It isn't like will Hyundai will offer less for more. That is the one reason I respect there business practices but I am still not impressed with the sporting nature of most other Hyundai's.

from a performance standpoint the solid axle and 115mph driveshaft (which i have never heard before) are only disadvantages if the was was slower, which it isnt. a solid axle is lighter and reduces unsprung weight. ford has made this an advantage imo

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by fatoni

from a performance standpoint the solid axle and 115mph driveshaft (which i have never heard before) are only disadvantages if the was was slower, which it isnt. a solid axle is lighter and reduces unsprung weight. ford has made this an advantage imo

1) http://jalopnik.com/5869650/why-do-2...keep-exploding

2) http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/19/w...ails-at-135-m/

3) http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...mph-video.html

You are right, it isn't really 115mph more like 140mph.



[u2b]-qWhxYElSW0[/u2b]

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

1) http://jalopnik.com/5869650/why-do-2...keep-exploding

2) http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/19/w...ails-at-135-m/

3) http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...mph-video.html

You are right, it isn't really 115mph more like 140mph.



[u2b]-qWhxYElSW0[/u2b]

i wonder if they have addressed this yet. that last post wasnt sarcasm by the way. i had no idea

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i wonder if they have addressed this yet. that last post wasnt sarcasm by the way. i had no idea

I know you weren't being sarcastic; neither was I. I was just showing you a few links with info about the issue and a video. Just thought I would be helpful.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by fatoni

from a performance standpoint the solid axle and 115mph driveshaft (which i have never heard before) are only disadvantages if the was was slower, which it isnt. a solid axle is lighter and reduces unsprung weight. ford has made this an advantage imo

Solid axle *greatly* INcreases unsprung weight. That's one of the major advantages of IRS. With a live axle, the entire rear axle assembly including the differential is unsprung mass. With IRS, the differential and half of the halfshaft weight, ~2/3 of the control arm weights are sprung mass.

The overall weight penalty for IRS is very small, often tremendously overstated. I think this might have to do with how much weight it added on the last-gen IRS Mustang Cobras. But that weight gain included an added-on subframe for mounting.

For a dedicated IRS design (as opposed to IRS added on to a car designed for a live axle), the real weight penalty isn't that big, if it exists at all.

On the Mustang Cobras, the additional required hardware made the IRS version 80 lb. heavier. But unsprung weight was reduced by 125 lb., according to this source, anyway:
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featur...a/viewall.html

Here's a shot of the Mustang IRS:

[edit: no idea why I can't load this pic! Click on web address below or just search the interwebz for Mustang Cobra IRS images]
Note that the loads from the control arm mounts have to be beamed over to the existing hardpoints in the chassis for the live axle. VERY inefficient load path, resulting in a heavy subframe. With a dedicated IRS car, you'd simply have chassis hardpoints located right at the control arm pivots.

Source for pic also reports 125 lb. reduction in unsprung mass. Seems like a lot, but then a live axle is a heavy assembly...
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension2.htm
"Ford designed this IRS so that it attaches to the 1979-2004 Mustang's stock suspension mounting points. That somewhat compromised the performance of the IRS, but it means that the unit can be bolted into any late model Mustang chassis. The IRS subsystem is about 70 lbs. heavier than a solid rear axle, which contributes a better front/rear weight distribution, and it reduces the car's unsprung weight by about 125 lbs."

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by Deslock

"FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe, a narrative by SUB-FT86"

Sub-ft86 has contributed many useful posts to this thread and while I may not always agree with him he does stay on-topic unlike many of you.

[fernan2]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Sub-ft86 has contributed many useful posts to this thread and while I may not always agree with him he does stay on-topic unlike many of you.

+1

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Sub-ft86 has contributed many useful posts to this thread and while I may not always agree with him he does stay on-topic unlike many of you.

Agreed, although I also agree with him 99% of the time. (the 1% being the bit about the stang v6 propeller shaft speed load limit.)

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

(the 1% being the bit about the stang v6 propeller shaft speed load limit.)

So what are your thoughts on the V6 Mustang driveshaft issues?

[Tbxgz]

wow gotta say the 3.8 has one hell of a rumble

[u2b]NpWgp1AsgRM[/u2b]

[Exage]

I was expecting a Crown Vic with Lights and Sirens 5 seconds after the start of that video.

No idea why...

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

Agreed, although I also agree with him 99% of the time. (the 1% being the bit about the stang v6 propeller shaft speed load limit.)

Yeah I meant to say Ford put a limiter on the car to 115 mph in fear of the driveshaft issues with the V6 model.

[vq37]

Review from autoguide

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Solid axle *greatly* INcreases unsprung weight. That's one of the major advantages of IRS. With a live axle, the entire rear axle assembly including the differential is unsprung mass. With IRS, the differential and half of the halfshaft weight, ~2/3 of the control arm weights are sprung mass.

The overall weight penalty for IRS is very small, often tremendously overstated. I think this might have to do with how much weight it added on the last-gen IRS Mustang Cobras. But that weight gain included an added-on subframe for mounting.

For a dedicated IRS design (as opposed to IRS added on to a car designed for a live axle), the real weight penalty isn't that big, if it exists at all.

On the Mustang Cobras, the additional required hardware made the IRS version 80 lb. heavier. But unsprung weight was reduced by 125 lb., according to this source, anyway:
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featur...a/viewall.html

Here's a shot of the Mustang IRS:

[edit: no idea why I can't load this pic! Click on web address below or just search the interwebz for Mustang Cobra IRS images]
Note that the loads from the control arm mounts have to be beamed over to the existing hardpoints in the chassis for the live axle. VERY inefficient load path, resulting in a heavy subframe. With a dedicated IRS car, you'd simply have chassis hardpoints located right at the control arm pivots.

Source for pic also reports 125 lb. reduction in unsprung mass. Seems like a lot, but then a live axle is a heavy assembly...
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension2.htm
"Ford designed this IRS so that it attaches to the 1979-2004 Mustang's stock suspension mounting points. That somewhat compromised the performance of the IRS, but it means that the unit can be bolted into any late model Mustang chassis. The IRS subsystem is about 70 lbs. heavier than a solid rear axle, which contributes a better front/rear weight distribution, and it reduces the car's unsprung weight by about 125 lbs."

sorry i didnt mean unsprung weight, just weight. i was on the way out the door to work. the point is that while solid axles potentially are at a disadvantage, in this new mustang it is not