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Old 09-17-2013, 09:00 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figo View Post
SO RSR coilover does not come with camber plate?
Yes it does, it is a two-position adjustable upper plate, not infinite multi-position adjust because RSR Sports-i uses a more comfortable rubber insert bushing and not a race use hard ball joint.
It has a range of 0 degree and 1.5 degree.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:21 AM   #30
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Thank you Moto-P for an HONEST and IN-DEPTH analysis of your product.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:35 AM   #31
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Nice so that means will allow over -2.0 with camber bolt?
BTW I did not find any 5k front and 6k rear RSR coilovers. All products in the links are 6k front and 7k rear.

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Originally Posted by Moto-P View Post
Yes it does, it is a two-position adjustable upper plate, not infinite multi-position adjust because RSR Sports-i uses a more comfortable rubber insert bushing and not a race use hard ball joint.
It has a range of 0 degree and 1.5 degree.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:44 PM   #32
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@Figo I'm at around -2 camber up front right now with the coil overs and crash bolts.

@Moto-P Funny you mentioned about the top mounts being 'reversible' to get more camber - my mechanic mentioned that to me after he'd finished installing them but I didn't think it was 'designed in' at the time.

6 month+ review:

Been out on track a couple of times now, done a couple of AutoX events, done some serious canyon carving and even a bit of drifting. Whole lot of daily driving too.

Couldn't fault the car out on track. Still running the 'out of the box' Moto-P setup, the alignment I post earlier and street tires. It's not the fastest or edgiest thing I've driven but it was still surprisingly, pleasingly competent out there. Tons of grip, very neutral, very well poised over bumps and kerbing, very confidence inspiring when pushing really hard with the DSC completely off. I found that the car was also very progressive at the limits which meant that I could just dive in and enjoy the drive instead of having to worry about the car biting me or having to drive around any pronounced chassis imbalances towards either over or understeer.

When AutoXing I did encounter slight signs of understeer on very tight, brake-hard-heel-toe-REV-and-grab-first type Autocross/gymkhana obstacles but I'm hoping that some simple rubber and alignment tweaks might fix that. Or it might just be me overdriving the car like a hack, the course surface being a bit dusty etc. Minor detail.

As far as lightly competitive or very high performance use goes I'm certain that there's faster setups to be had with more extreme rubber, more aggressive/higher end coilovers, other chassis mods and a more diligent attitude to small setup tweaks (tire pressures and the like). I honestly don't feel like I'm leaving too much on the table in terms of raw capability though, even if I might well indeed be giving up a tenth of a second here or there versus a truly hard core setup. I guess we'll cross that bridge whenever somebody local shows up with another prepped ZN6 and starts turning up the heat.

Meanwhile out on the streets the car passes the 'girlfriend test' with flying colours. I don't think she's aware that the car has been modified at all. The passenger side visor always seems to be down when she's in the car because she's fond of randomly (and barely noticeably) touching up her makeup on the go. Most importantly to me, my passenger seems to feel every bit as comfortable riding shotgun as I do in the driver's seat even when I'm driving rather quickly or on rather curvy roads, or both.

What next? I might play with camber and slightly grippier street rubber from here but that's about it. It's extremely refreshing to be able to just drive to the track, bang out some runs and drive home again drama-free without feeling like I'm leaving much on the table. No hassles with changing to R-comps, fiddling with multiple suspension knobs and constantly fretting about tire pressures.

If there's one crappy attribute of this car it HAS to be the brakes in my opinion. The stock setup simply doesn't handle hard use very well and the braking deficiency suddenly becomes quite a glaring sore spot once you upgrade the rest of the chassis. Fluid/lines/pads bring things up to scratch very nicely indeed but I opted for a 4 corner Alcon BBK so I'll simply never have to think about fade again, ever.

I'm pretty broke post-BBK at the moment but at least the car's set up like a treat. Full warranty on the engine intact, breeze to daily drive and it's ready to throw down and dance hard, any where, any time. Just what I wanted.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:17 AM   #33
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I just changed 225/40r18 eagle GT Square settup. And felt some difference. I felt it harder to kick my rear out, which was wat i loved to do.

So I was thinking to get RSR coilovers to drop the car around 25mm front and rear, and make it full soft front and stiffer rear. use LCA and camber bolt to set around -2 front and -1.5 rear camber.

Would u plz tell me that whether the full soft setting is much stiffer than regular lowering spring or stock? its my DD car so just dont want it too stiff.

@Moto-P And will I feel better with these coilovers? I know stiffer suspension may make these new tires less gripy and offer me a feeling like factory setting or even easier to kick my rear out.

Thanks!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra View Post
@Figo I'm at around -2 camber up front right now with the coil overs and crash bolts.

@Moto-P Funny you mentioned about the top mounts being 'reversible' to get more camber - my mechanic mentioned that to me after he'd finished installing them but I didn't think it was 'designed in' at the time.

6 month+ review:

Been out on track a couple of times now, done a couple of AutoX events, done some serious canyon carving and even a bit of drifting. Whole lot of daily driving too.

Couldn't fault the car out on track. Still running the 'out of the box' Moto-P setup, the alignment I post earlier and street tires. It's not the fastest or edgiest thing I've driven but it was still surprisingly, pleasingly competent out there. Tons of grip, very neutral, very well poised over bumps and kerbing, very confidence inspiring when pushing really hard with the DSC completely off. I found that the car was also very progressive at the limits which meant that I could just dive in and enjoy the drive instead of having to worry about the car biting me or having to drive around any pronounced chassis imbalances towards either over or understeer.

When AutoXing I did encounter slight signs of understeer on very tight, brake-hard-heel-toe-REV-and-grab-first type Autocross/gymkhana obstacles but I'm hoping that some simple rubber and alignment tweaks might fix that. Or it might just be me overdriving the car like a hack, the course surface being a bit dusty etc. Minor detail.

As far as lightly competitive or very high performance use goes I'm certain that there's faster setups to be had with more extreme rubber, more aggressive/higher end coilovers, other chassis mods and a more diligent attitude to small setup tweaks (tire pressures and the like). I honestly don't feel like I'm leaving too much on the table in terms of raw capability though, even if I might well indeed be giving up a tenth of a second here or there versus a truly hard core setup. I guess we'll cross that bridge whenever somebody local shows up with another prepped ZN6 and starts turning up the heat.

Meanwhile out on the streets the car passes the 'girlfriend test' with flying colours. I don't think she's aware that the car has been modified at all. The passenger side visor always seems to be down when she's in the car because she's fond of randomly (and barely noticeably) touching up her makeup on the go. Most importantly to me, my passenger seems to feel every bit as comfortable riding shotgun as I do in the driver's seat even when I'm driving rather quickly or on rather curvy roads, or both.

What next? I might play with camber and slightly grippier street rubber from here but that's about it. It's extremely refreshing to be able to just drive to the track, bang out some runs and drive home again drama-free without feeling like I'm leaving much on the table. No hassles with changing to R-comps, fiddling with multiple suspension knobs and constantly fretting about tire pressures.

If there's one crappy attribute of this car it HAS to be the brakes in my opinion. The stock setup simply doesn't handle hard use very well and the braking deficiency suddenly becomes quite a glaring sore spot once you upgrade the rest of the chassis. Fluid/lines/pads bring things up to scratch very nicely indeed but I opted for a 4 corner Alcon BBK so I'll simply never have to think about fade again, ever.

I'm pretty broke post-BBK at the moment but at least the car's set up like a treat. Full warranty on the engine intact, breeze to daily drive and it's ready to throw down and dance hard, any where, any time. Just what I wanted.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figo View Post
I just changed 225/40r18 eagle GT Square settup. And felt some difference. I felt it harder to kick my rear out, which was wat i loved to do.

So I was thinking to get RSR coilovers to drop the car around 25mm front and rear, and make it full soft front and stiffer rear. use LCA and camber bolt to set around -2 front and -1.5 rear camber.

Would u plz tell me that whether the full soft setting is much stiffer than regular lowering spring or stock? its my DD car so just dont want it too stiff.

@Moto-P And will I feel better with these coilovers? I know stiffer suspension may make these new tires less gripy and offer me a feeling like factory setting or even easier to kick my rear out.

Thanks!!
I run the same tires as you and don't have any problems getting the tail out if I want to. You have more grip so it's prettyy straightforward that it'll be a little harder to break traction that way.

I found that adjusting the toe in the rear to 0 degrees (instead of toe in) had much more influence in terms of getting the car to rotate than playing around with the damper settings.

For drifting I just pump the rears up to ridiculous psi and go for it (or better yet - drift rubber).

YMMV.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:43 PM   #35
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So I will need a toe arm to adjust the toe on the rear?

I am still struggle between RSR and KW, cuz both offer comfortable street drive and can adjust damper for track use. lol. Just want more camber on the front but KW I need to pay for new top mount. So I may go RSR.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra View Post
I run the same tires as you and don't have any problems getting the tail out if I want to. You have more grip so it's prettyy straightforward that it'll be a little harder to break traction that way.

I found that adjusting the toe in the rear to 0 degrees (instead of toe in) had much more influence in terms of getting the car to rotate than playing around with the damper settings.

For drifting I just pump the rears up to ridiculous psi and go for it (or better yet - drift rubber).

YMMV.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:45 AM   #36
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You can adjust toe from the factory. To adjust rear camber (if you want to) you need either the Whiteline bushings or lower arms. To get more front negative camber you can reverse the RS*R upper mounts and add crash bolts to get a little more.

When you lower it the rear will automatically camber in (more negative camber) so the rear camber adjustment is used to add back some positive camber in the rear if you want to. Not essential, your choice.

There are tons of ways to set up the car to be more tail happy. I'm happy with the balance of the RS*Rs as is since the car is very neutral & similar to stock, just with higher limits.

If you wanted more rotation overall I'd look at the alignment first, then stiffer springs in the rear vs. front, then fine tuning with the dampers, then hacks such as tire pressures.

Not an expert on the subject though.

I suggest that you try out cars with the RS*Rs and v3s on them if possible & decide for yourself.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:10 AM   #37
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Keep in mind that the FRS/BRZ whilst without proper training and skills, is an inherently under-steering car under heavy throttle. This is true for any car that has a good limited slip differential as initial input of throttle is very well translated to forward traction, resulting in rearward squat, and less front grip in such state.

So if you are wondering why it will understeer trying to initiate a drift with only throttle jab. This is the short answer, and this is not the suspension at all.

A proficient driver will induce a drift with deceleration or other methods natural and artificial, and create a natural tail-slide. From there, the RSR should behave very controlled and predictable with throttle modulation responding to great rear contact patch communication.

A proper sports car formula like the FRS/BRZ this is the best attribute. The car should be neutral steer under constant state, with ability to provoke controlled mild natural oversteer at the will of the capable driver, as well as faint understeer when under heavy throttle. This makes the car a properly controllable car, and one that communicates and responds properly to an enthusiastic and capable driver, rather with ease, and with lots of pleasure. This is regardless of which wheels are driven, but more in terms of proper balance. Cars that are capable of this is what is considered a "driver's car" and is the reason this category of design is coveted by the best drivers and owners in the world, regardless of price.





Happy Motoring!!
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:11 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra View Post
I run the same tires as you and don't have any problems getting the tail out if I want to. You have more grip so it's prettyy straightforward that it'll be a little harder to break traction that way.

I found that adjusting the toe in the rear to 0 degrees (instead of toe in) had much more influence in terms of getting the car to rotate than playing around with the damper settings.

For drifting I just pump the rears up to ridiculous psi and go for it (or better yet - drift rubber).

YMMV.

Simply getting the tail out is for a modern car, the BRZ/FRS is easy, but the biggest lack is usually driver skills as this is a very responsive and balanced car and things do happen quickly, and there needs to be a certain level of skill set to cope with a car this quick and agile. Because the car is so well balanced, the FRS/BRZ can be adamantly prone to understeer for novices.

This is something left for discussion at the raceway and driving schools and behind the driver's seat, and is like describing in words how to ride a bicycle. But once you get it, it won't go away from you!

Just stay safe, as you have to always remember that any car is a 2 ton hunk of metal, that can do a lot of damage and killing if used irresponsibly.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:54 PM   #39
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Thank you @ultra and @Moto-P for the in-depth review and technical overview of the Sport-i. I get a strong sense of wholehearted passion behind this product and the formula is exactly what I'm seeking; improved handling and lowering capabilities while maintaining good ride quality. I will be ordering a set in the springtime!
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:52 PM   #40
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Enjoyed reading up on this review. I had the Sports*i on my FR-S and was able to enjoy a few auto-crossing events and one track event at Buttonwillow as well.
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:16 PM   #41
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@ultra and @Moto-P

Thanks both of your generous detailed posts and insights, yesterday I finally upgraded my RS-R SuperDown Springs to RS-R Sports-i Moto Spec Coilovers. Impression? So far, so great. Will add camber or crash bolts and wait 1 week before an alignment. Initial ride height was about .5" above spec, now is almost dead on Moto-spec. Will measure again soon.

For touring
The road comfort is very nice. They do make the car feel like it has a suspension from a more expensive car. Low speed comfort is good, however high speed comfort is greatly improved. Almost no oscillation over infamous L.A. area expansion joints. Planted, assured, and comfortable.

Spirited driving
The stroke improvement is incredible. I live in Southern California where the roads are pretty bad (even on the highways). Long sweeping turns full of bumps and broken pavement that used to unsettle the rear end now feel like they have full traction and I haven't felt the bump stops at all. At speed nothing but firm and in control. I also have noticed a slight handling bias from the previous FR-S oversteer, to the mild BRZ understeer. I'm sure this keeps street drivers quite safe. Will see if it's for me and adjust if necessary using @ultra 's recommend minor front toe out setting.

Track
Impressions after the alignment. @Moto-P When is the next '86 academy?
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:58 AM   #42
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@Moto-P

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge on the RSR sporti coil overs. I just bought a set.
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