follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #15
FT-86 SpeedFactory
 
FT-86 SpeedFactory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 7,694
Thanks: 1,298
Thanked 3,578 Times in 1,253 Posts
Mentioned: 341 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Toe arms are not needed. We're also running both our shop cars without toe arms on zero toe ( technically we like a little though ) and -3 camber.

I'd be leery of a place selling you something just to sell you something...
FT-86 SpeedFactory is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FT-86 SpeedFactory For This Useful Post:
Anthony (10-02-2013), Dezoris (10-01-2013), melon (10-02-2013)
Old 10-01-2013, 11:19 PM   #16
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,857
Thanks: 519
Thanked 2,997 Times in 1,095 Posts
Mentioned: 159 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
The factory toe eccentric bushings have almost a degree of toe adjustment built in. 0.85 degrees. Thats a massive range. When I did my corner balance and alignment we tested the range. I am dropped 10mm in rear with - 1.5 camber. NO toe arms needed.
__________________
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dezoris For This Useful Post:
Anthony (10-02-2013), DAN_BRZ (02-26-2014), FT-86 SpeedFactory (10-01-2013), normancw (01-11-2014)
Old 10-01-2013, 11:24 PM   #17
boredom.is.me
Custom User Title
 
boredom.is.me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Asphalt FR-S MT
Location: Buford, GA/Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 2,790
Thanks: 394
Thanked 1,182 Times in 697 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figo View Post
i might do it myself now cuz the labor fee is too much。 changed lowerin springs on my old car by myself before。 now just kinda too busy these days
It took two of us less than 3 hours to change the springs. That's while messing around and doing a bunch of other stuff. They can easily be done within 2 hours.
__________________
boredom.is.me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 11:40 PM   #18
Figo
Senior Member
 
Figo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: Vortech Supercharged FR-S
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 1,515
Thanks: 597
Thanked 933 Times in 428 Posts
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredom.is.me View Post
It took two of us less than 3 hours to change the springs. That's while messing around and doing a bunch of other stuff. They can easily be done within 2 hours.
I spent a whole day to change lowering springs on my old car cuz all bolts were rust ans I didnt hav air compressor. WD40 and a super long wrench were wat i used.
__________________
I'd rather lose by a mile because I built my own car,
than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
Your car is your story, so don't let someone else write the book.

( White Tiger ) - FiGo's 車誌.
Figo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 11:49 PM   #19
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,857
Thanks: 519
Thanked 2,997 Times in 1,095 Posts
Mentioned: 159 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figo View Post
thanks.
so drop does not affect toe, only camber does right? if i hav LCA to correct the natural negative camber that earned by drop.
Any drop or change to ride height effects static toe. So typically you set ride heights first allow settle time. Adjust camber first then toe, the repeat if needed.

In the rear your toe will change but typically wont change more than +/-. 15 degrees worst case. But since you are doing LCAs its going to be more out of wack than standard drop.
__________________
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2013, 12:04 AM   #20
FT-86 SpeedFactory
 
FT-86 SpeedFactory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 7,694
Thanks: 1,298
Thanked 3,578 Times in 1,253 Posts
Mentioned: 341 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figo View Post
i think maybe they wanna sell toe arms to me? they told me they hav whiteline toe arms available and it might be dangerous if toe arm is not used

kinda made me confused cuz iv never heard than a toe arm is a must, and i only plan to go -1.5 rear.

lol.
Don't need toe arms. Give us a call we'll set ya straight.
FT-86 SpeedFactory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2013, 12:58 AM   #21
boredom.is.me
Custom User Title
 
boredom.is.me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Asphalt FR-S MT
Location: Buford, GA/Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 2,790
Thanks: 394
Thanked 1,182 Times in 697 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figo View Post
I spent a whole day to change lowering springs on my old car cuz all bolts were rust ans I didnt hav air compressor. WD40 and a super long wrench were wat i used.
You don't need any power tools, air compressors, or spring compressors. You only need a few wrenches and an Allen key set. These are also brand new cars so you shouldn't have to worry about rust or corrosion.
__________________
boredom.is.me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 10:01 PM   #22
mwjcyber
Senior Member
 
mwjcyber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: 13' Subaru BRZ Limited SWP 6MT
Location: Albuquerque, NM (5923 ft)
Posts: 465
Thanks: 515
Thanked 307 Times in 170 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by empower-auto View Post
Running similar camber to your goals I was unable to zero out my toe. I actually was stuck with improper thrust angle. Toe out on one side, toe in on the other ...

Moral: buy toe arms
Dropped two inches on FA500' s, with SPC LCA' s. I wanted to stay pretty much within factory specs, front 0°/0.05° camber/toe , rear -1.5°/0.10° camber/toe. With a digital level I was able to set my camber almost perfectly in my garage, 0° front / -1.5° rear, but notice massive amounts of positive rear toe. So I maxed out both rear toe arms negative adjustment to pull the front of the tires in.

Went in for an alignment today and the right rear couldn't pull in enough toe due to LCA camber affect on toe. Shop is best in Albuquerque, and they put me on their best Hunter in ground rack. I was in the bay as the tech had to bring my camber out to -2.4° just to get toe to 0.24° per side. Recommended max rear toe is 0.20°

If you lower two or more inches and want to stay within factory specs, you'll need rear toe arms if you do LCA's. As you lower, you gain negative camber and positive toe in the rear. As you add positive camber with rear LCA' s, you gain positive toe. Upper control arms and bushings, like whiteline, don't affect toe, so even though I've said bad things about them in the past, unless your willing to also buy rear toe arms, you might consider UCA bushings.
mwjcyber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 08:06 AM   #23
wparsons
Senior Member
 
wparsons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FR-S Manual
Location: Whitby, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,716
Thanks: 7,875
Thanked 3,351 Times in 2,134 Posts
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Toe will be affected by drop and final camber settings, they're not independent.

If you run adjustable upper control arms instead of lower control arms toe won't be affected by adjusting camber. They're not as easy to adjust, but will cause less headaches.
__________________
Light travels faster than sound, so people may appear to be bright until you hear them speak...
flickr
wparsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 08:55 AM   #24
TylerLieberman
Senior Member
 
TylerLieberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: '20 Hakone 86
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,671
Thanks: 655
Thanked 3,334 Times in 1,572 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm dropped over 2" on Stance Super Sport Coilovers and Stance LCAs.

The lowest I could get my camber was -1.8 with 0 toe. I want to run -1.5 at most but that would cause toe out seeing how my stock links are already maxed.

I'm getting SPL toe links to solve the issue. If you plan on running more camber, stock toe links should be fine.

With these cars, as you increase camber, you get toe IN on the rear. You just pull the toe out. As you go lower, camber increases which means toe in increases. So, if you aren't trying to go super low and vastly alter your camber, your stock toe links should work fine. If you're making BIG alterations to height and camber, you'll want links/bushings for toe adjustment.

I dropped over 2" in ride height and before alignment, was running close to -3 camber in the rear. I'm cutting that in half so I need some extra adjustment.
TylerLieberman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 10:51 AM   #25
raul
Lap time enthusiast
 
raul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: Asphalt '13 FR-S 6MT
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,332
Thanks: 725
Thanked 727 Times in 389 Posts
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by empower-auto View Post
Running similar camber to your goals I was unable to zero out my toe. I actually was stuck with improper thrust angle. Toe out on one side, toe in on the other ...

Moral: buy toe arms
Depends on your experience when your car is at the alignment rack I guess. I am lowered around 1.4", camber is -2 in the rear, and was able to achieve 0 toe.
raul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 01:00 PM   #26
mwjcyber
Senior Member
 
mwjcyber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: 13' Subaru BRZ Limited SWP 6MT
Location: Albuquerque, NM (5923 ft)
Posts: 465
Thanks: 515
Thanked 307 Times in 170 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raul View Post
Depends on your experience when your car is at the alignment rack I guess. I am lowered around 1.4", camber is -2 in the rear, and was able to achieve 0 toe.
Every car is slightly different with the fit of it's components. My car with 2" drop needed at least -2.8deg rear camber to get 0 rear toe; that's factory toe adjustment maxed out. Drop your car to 2" and you'll likely need more than -2deg rear camber to get 0deg toe with factory toe arms.

I'm posting this because until this thread, all other threads I read said no need for Toe Arms if only dropping 2" or less, which is incorrect if you don't want lots of rear camber like myself and LCA's are used to reduce it. Anything over -1.5 rear camber is more than I want. Factory spec rear camber is -1.2.
mwjcyber is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.