T(h)or's GT86 hammer (Europe) - essential track setup

[Guillaume]

Like I said before, I've logged plenty of track miles with the BRZ on demanding tracks (including Zolder) and the best value for money setup is IMHO excellent pads on standard rotors.

In my case, Carbotech XP10 pads and OEM rotors work wonders. With some extra cooling from the now well-knwon Porsche brake spoilers.

Not only are grooved or drilled rotors a marketing gimmick with no efficacy whatsoever, but they are pads killers too. In the spirit of bang for bucks, you're better off replacing standard rotors twice as often than throwing money at high end fancy rotors.

Just my $0.02.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Guillaume

Like I said before, I've logged plenty of track miles with the BRZ on demanding tracks (including Zolder) and the best value for money setup is IMHO excellent pads on standard rotors.

In my case, Carbotech XP10 pads and OEM rotors work wonders. With some extra cooling from the now well-knwon Porsche brake spoilers.

Not only are grooved or drilled rotors a marketing gimmick with no efficacy whatsoever, but they are pads killers too. In the spirit of bang for bucks, you're better off replacing standard rotors twice as often than throwing money at high end fancy rotors.

Just my $0.02.

I completely agree with the blank rotors. For me the important part is that they have a treatment to cope with the heat. Another GT86 driver here changed to a BBK and have a set of lightly used Tarox F2000 that I can get at good price. So I might opt for them even if they are grooved.

Where do you get the XP10 pads? I looked for them here and only found a dealer in the UK who didn't have them in stock.

[Mr.Impreza]

Yeah essential sounds good!

[Guillaume]

Originally Posted by Tor

Where do you get the XP10 pads? I looked for them here and only found a dealer in the UK who didn't have them in stock.

I order them at http://www.carbotech-europe.com/, shoot an email to Ian, he is pretty responsive. And it will be a lot cheaper than mine 2 months ago.

I'd think twice before using used rotors. Each pad needs its own bedding layer, you might ruin new pads on disks bedded in with another compound.

[Tor]

I've sent him an email. If they are in stock I might go that way. Especially since everyone is praising them here and the DS 1.11 might be hard to get. I'm still waiting for an answer if they are available, apparently Ferodo only make them in batches of 50 for our car. Winmax W6 also came into consideration, since I found out I can get them at a reasonable price front/rear in the UK.

Do you know what's the pad material of the XP10s? I couldn't really find that anywhere.

I'll think one more time about the rotors.

[Guillaume]

The XPs are ceramic based, I heard. Which makes the incompatible with rotors used with non ceramic pads.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Tor

I was super happy with the RC5+ pads as well. I would highly recommend them still!

I think when the pad got overheated it went into atomic meltdown! With the amount of pad material on the rotors the wear probably increased exponentially.

I am sure I am to blame to some extent. My brake technique is probably lacking a lot. In fact I'm not even sure I have a technique, I just slam the brakes when I want the car to stop. I read that most beginners don't brake hard enough in the beginning of the brake zone and too much at the end. But my knowledge of any techniques ends there. Any tips are appreciated.

Yeah, you actually want to do the opposite, brake as hard as possible at the beginning and progressively reduce brake pressure as you slow down. It's regressive braking.

I never had problems with brakes so far, even before mounting my Porsche ducts.

Originally Posted by Guillaume

Like I said before, I've logged plenty of track miles with the BRZ on demanding tracks (including Zolder) and the best value for money setup is IMHO excellent pads on standard rotors.

In my case, Carbotech XP10 pads and OEM rotors work wonders. With some extra cooling from the now well-knwon Porsche brake spoilers.

Not only are grooved or drilled rotors a marketing gimmick with no efficacy whatsoever, but they are pads killers too. In the spirit of bang for bucks, you're better off replacing standard rotors twice as often than throwing money at high end fancy rotors.

Just my $0.02.

I agree with you, i keep telling that to my GT86 friends but grooved/drilled rotors "look better" and they just go for that

However, i reckon that an Essex Sprint kit would be worth it in the long run...And that's my excuse to go BBK!

The reason i went for CL instead of Carbotech is that they don't require any special bedding and my rotors where almost new, they also work in a different way than most pads out there and you don't need to build a layer of pad material on the disc, so i don't have to worry about destroying that layer on a daily drive.

After the Nürburgring i may have to change everything so i'll look at different options (such as Carbotech).

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Yeah, you actually want to do the opposite, brake as hard as possible at the beginning and progressively reduce brake pressure as you slow down. It's regressive braking.

Yes that's what I am trying to do. I don't know if there are any other tips?

Some people say they "are not so hard on the brakes". I don't get that? Are they braking less than I am? And if so how do they get rid of the speed?

I think I will go with the XP10. And might try with ABS off, to really reveal how I am braking. Maybe I am more into ABS than I think I am.

The reason i went for CL instead of Carbotech is that they don't require any special bedding and my rotors where almost new, they also work in a different way than most pads out there and you don't need to build a layer of pad material on the disc, so i don't have to worry about destroying that layer on a daily drive.

That's not my experience with the RC5+. There is definitely a transfer layer. When bedding them or after a track day they were super quiet. After some time driving normally they would start to squeal at low speed stops (indicating the transfer layer was disappearing). After a few hard stop they would be quiet again. The squeal was minimal and not annoying though.

Edit:
They might not need a transfer layer, just wanted to say that they certainly build one.

Also written about the RC5+:
"If you do happen to push it over its temperature threshold, bite slowly tapers away rather than falling off a cliff, so you’ll easily recognize when it’s time to back off. It’s extremely wear resistant, and doesn’t destroy rotors with pad deposits when pushed to their temperature envelope.

Let's say I have a different experience with that too.

[Tor]

..and with regards to discs, I think I will opt for new ones. And I am going dirt-cheap with OEM Brembo.

But instead of those for the BRZ I will get the part number from a 2005 WRX (26300AE061). According to a BRZ friend here, who is a hardcore Subaru enthusiast, those discs should be better quality then the part number Brembo makes for the BRZ/GT86.

They cost 38€ a piece. If it turns out they are not up for the task, it's not much of a loss to replace them again.

[Tor]

Apparently I am crazy, but even with the worn brakes I couldn't resist to do a few laps on Nürburgring Grand Prix circuit a few days ago. They made a lot of rumbling noise but since the brakes were working, I thought "why not?". 2 stints of 5 laps each did wonders in cleaning up the rotors.

I braked early on the fast straights and every time someone was in front of me. It would have been embarrassing to shoot off the track or even worse rear-ending someone due to worn brakes.

Since I had been driving there shortly before going on the track, I was unsure how much air to let out, I only lowered it to 2.1 bar (30 psi). Probably it wasn't enough since the AD08R were screaming around the corners. Still lateral grip peaked at 1.3G in the cambered curves.

This time I felt well prepare and it was a lot of fun, as opposed to last time where I didn't know to turn left or right. Towards the end I felt really comfortable and started to see where I can be faster next time I'm there.

Regarding brakes, I finally made up my mind and ordered the Carbotech XP10 front and rear. I am really excited about getting those now!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ynalp17k94"]Getting a grip on Nürburgring GP circuit (and GT86 vs. GT86) - YouTube[/ame]

[Twinguin]

As I said on the German forum as well: nicely driven, brilliant video, especially with the Doctor's video as picture-in-picture.

And yes, there are one or two corners that I would attack differently. And I will never get the hang on the first turn and the Mercedes Arena. And as someone else mentioned - take Max' offroad approach, haha.

[Tor]

Thanks for the compliment Michael. But it wont top that of my neighbour. He was over for a cup of coffee and I we were talking about the slow internet we get here and I had been trying to upload a 16 min video in HD (took 8 hours!).

Now he is not a car guy at all, but I offered him to watch the video. His reply was:
"16 mins of driving?? how many rounds is that? I'll see one round only!".

I let it play from the second round with the MC near miss and where Maik overtook. When the round was over his comment was "let it play, that's more interesting and exciting than I thought!" and he watched the video to the end. Now from a guy that has no interest in cars at all...

I have a lot of ideas what to do differently, especially in the Mercedes arena and the two curves before the long back straight. Can't wait for the next opportunity (and new brakes).

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Tor

That's not my experience with the RC5+. There is definitely a transfer layer. When bedding them or after a track day they were super quiet. After some time driving normally they would start to squeal at low speed stops (indicating the transfer layer was disappearing). After a few hard stop they would be quiet again. The squeal was minimal and not annoying though.

Edit:
They might not need a transfer layer, just wanted to say that they certainly build one.

Also written about the RC5+:
"If you do happen to push it over its temperature threshold, bite slowly tapers away rather than falling off a cliff, so you’ll easily recognize when it’s time to back off. It’s extremely wear resistant, and doesn’t destroy rotors with pad deposits when pushed to their temperature envelope.

Let's say I have a different experience with that too.

My experience however is pretty much what was to be expected from CL's description... But that doesn't mean anything, each car/driver is different.

I'm eager to see you impressions with the Carbotechs once you get them.

PS: Regarding the braking technique, i'm afraid i can't say much on top of what's already been said. But practice makes perfect, right?

[Tor]

Yes I am really excited as well. I hope I get them in time to get them installed before the 26/7. That's the next time the GP circuit is open for tourist drives. I am not too optimistic though as they are being made to order in the UK. With shipping and weekend and installation, it's going to be tight. Maybe the RC5+ will have hold up for a few more stints.