How is this not an RX8?

[old greg]

Originally Posted by blu_

I assume the FA20 will be lighter.

I seem to recall that it's a couple of pounds heavier for some reason.

Originally Posted by ZDan

F20C doesn't mind hanging out at 9000rpm all day at the track

Yeah, right up until the connecting rods snap.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by fatoni

if something doesnt make sense to you, it might not be the concept that is stupid. all else equal, the sports car that gets better gas mileage is going to have more money to put into parts or track days. i find it ironic that you use that example of tool and its purpose but then you drive an impreza.

Thanks for politely calling me stupid. Gas milage isnt the only factor in the operating costs of a car, albeit a large one. My cars purpose is excellent for Connecticut seasons (NE is subaru country for a reason), the truck and sedan have had their own uses too.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Thanks for politely calling me stupid. Gas milage isnt the only factor in the operating costs of a car, albeit a large one. My cars purpose is excellent for Connecticut seasons (NE is subaru country for a reason), the truck and sedan have had their own uses too.

yeah that was a little passive aggressive but i dont mean you are stupid. just your statement. im guilty of it from time to time as well. you have to see that when you buy a car, no matter what kind, gas mileage matters. well as long as money matters

[spin9k]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you have to see that when you buy a car, no matter what kind, gas mileage matters. well as long as money matters

the phrase pay to play is so cliche, but...

Does money always matter [so much]?

we're not talking 10s of thousands of dollars, we're barely talking a thousand - let's say between a 20mpg car (RX-8) and a 40 mpg (Prius)
that's either $2400 or $1200 so $1200 dif for 12,000 miles
if that is a make or break deal for you, then take your pick, or some other vehicle in between
of course, walking is cheaper, what's a ride worth anyway?
for some fuel cost is inconsequential ... just saying
pay to play is just living how you want, with what you want

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by spin9k

the phrase pay to play is so cliche, but...

Does money always matter [so much]?

we're not talking 10s of thousands of dollars, we're barely talking a thousand - let's say between a 20mpg car (RX-8) and a 40 mpg (Prius)
that's either $2400 or $1200 so $1200 dif for 12,000 miles
if that is a make or break deal for you, then take your pick, or some other vehicle in between
of course, walking is cheaper, what's a ride worth anyway?
for some fuel cost is inconsequential ... just saying
pay to play is just living how you want, with what you want

i think it just depends on your perspective. when you put it like that, maybe. how i see it is a little different though. i make a finite number of dollars per year. if car a gets 20mpg and car b gets 30mpg then car b will let me buy the car and go to 3 or 4 more track days per year or buy a complete suspension or turbo kit every three or four years.

[spin9k]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think it just depends on your perspective. when you put it like that, maybe. how i see it is a little different though. i make a finite number of dollars per year. if car a gets 20mpg and car b gets 30mpg then car b will let me buy the car and go to 3 or 4 more track days per year or buy a complete suspension or turbo kit every three or four years.

makes perfect sense

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by old greg

Yeah, right up until the connecting rods snap.

That would be a rare event on the F20C/F22C. I would think that a serious overrev would be required. I've never heard of it happening, and I hang out at S2ki.com all the time.

Picture this: At an S2000 gathering, someone says "I broke a con rod." Everyone is like "no WAY, WTF, rilly?! You musta overrevved it to 10k or more!"

At an RX-8 gathering, someone says "I blew an apex seal or two." Is anyone surprised? Or do they say "oh yeah, that happens..."?

[70NYD]

That 1200 extra is nothing considering the enjoyment you will get from the car.
My gf has a yarris. Her fuel consumption is circa 6L/100km where as my rx8 is 15L/100km (both same mixture of city/hwy, I drive mine hard)
For 20000km (average Australian yearly usage, we both actually average 12000km/year or less) the difference is she spends 1200L and I spend 3000L. Her fuel is 91RON mine is 98RON. At current average prices (1.40 for 91 and 1.58 for 98) she spends 1680AUD for 20000km while I spend 4740AUD for 20000km. So I pay 3000AUD more for every 20000km driven, or 1800AUD more per year or 35 more per week or 5 more per day.. What the fuck is that when I get pure enjoyment every time I drive my car, take it to the track or throw it in to any random corner.. Purely based on enjoyment, rx8 is a bargain compared to the yaris, because if I try to drive te yaris like the 8, I have a feeling that either engine would explode or wear out, or it would loose controll and end up in a tree.. If your going to compare cars, do it down to a small level, you can't do it JUST on mpg

[serialk11r]

But you're comparing RX8 to Yaris, so obviously the Yaris is much less fun. What about an S2000, which burns maybe like 60% of the fuel that your RX8 burns, how does that "price for enjoyment" work out?

[70NYD]

I never drove a s2k so i dont know. I never driven them because I don't like them, or hondas for that matter
And apex seals going on 8's in Australia anyway is not so common and any rx8 i have been to there have rarely been much complaits about cars. Comparing the engines (rotaries vs pistons) isn't exactly easy because piston engine is the most common type in the world, and there are collectively thousands of years of research in it (by which I mean many different companies doing research) where as for rotaries there is Mazda for automotive (other ones don't any more) and there is the light aircraft and some marine engines. The light aircraft ones don't fail that regularly, and are fairly reliable, that's because they are warmed up to operating temp before being loaded.
I'm by no means a rotary nut, I'm just playing devils advocate. I didn't get the 8 because of the engine, rather I got it because of the looks and the fact I could carry 4 adults comfortably

[serialk11r]

I totally understand what you're saying, I think the RX8 is a great car in concept, the problem is the engine is comparable in terms of efficiency to engines built 40 years ago. You could say the lack of research and development makes it an unfair comparison, but unfortunately that's the weakness.

By the way, any particular reason why you don't like Hondas? I'd personally love to have an S2000 such a cool car.

[70NYD]

Here, vtec boys ruined the brand for me to be honest.
Actually I hate that word "vtec" because Honda wasn't the 1st to invent variable valve control, nor did they do it the best.. But they did do it smartly, and marketed it good il give them that

And yeah it is a weakness, I know. I understand what your saying. I would love if this car spent less fuel. But to me fuel isn't the 1st priority

[DSR2409]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I totally understand what you're saying, I think the RX8 is a great car in concept, the problem is the engine is comparable in terms of efficiency to engines built 40 years ago. You could say the lack of research and development makes it an unfair comparison, but unfortunately that's the weakness.

By the way, any particular reason why you don't like Hondas? I'd personally love to have an S2000 such a cool car.

How is 238 hp from a 1.3L engine inefficient? If you were to get a piston engine that displaced 1.3L to that hp number, it would require forced induction, and burn way more fuel...probably even more than a rotary.

[spin9k]

^ well, 238HP isn't too shabby, but in reality they way HP is figured and due to the combustion cycling of the rotary, it is customary to compare its 1.3L with a 2.6L piston engine. I'd say it's HP is fairly decent for a NA engine (given that comparison), just sometimes wished Mazda had added an FI option somewhere along the RX-8 lineage...