Honda S2K Advice

[jmark]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Yeah waiting for em to get on lot at this point. Need something bigger but still fun family etc. I drive a lot of cars and the S2K was like my fav I always wanted to own one and having one, now it's hard but I gotta let go. So far the twins are the only affordable fun car that is just about as fun to drive as the S2K.

I have owned two S2000's and they are great cars. I am looking to get a new daily driver (current car is a 2009 Civic Si Sedan). I was leaning towards a new ND Miata however they are even smaller than the S2000 and I just don't fit. I am 6'-2" 195 pounds. The ND is also having a gearbox issue which is still not fully under control yet. My son has wanted a BRZ for awhile and plans to order a new PP soon. I drove a 2016 BRZ and really liked it. Driving position is excellent. Gearbox is nice and the steering feel is great. So I am leaning towards a new PP myself.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by Dempz

In my current situatio I just can't afford to pay it out right and not many banks will finance an older car. I bet I could eek out 3 years finance for a more expensive newer s2k but then I might as well get a twin. A friend of mine had an NSX back when you could pick them up for 25k. He just had someone offer him 60k for it.

Lots of choices and lots of thinking.

I bought a 1997 Spa Yellow NSX-T in March 2014. Car still has less than 40K miles on it. Paid $48.5 and it is now worth in the $60K range.

[kcam86]

Originally Posted by Dempz

I'm gonna be in the market for an Honda S2K and am honestly pretty uneducated about these cars but I know I love the looks and the way they drive. I've been doing some research, however I have a couple questions and I know I've seen a couple of you guys on here that have owned one so maybe you can answer.

My budget is $15k. Most of them in that price range are 100k miles if not more. I've always been told Hondas are tanks especially the older generation ones, but does that hold true with the S2K.

I've heard they also are notorious for eating oil. Besides asking for service logs etc is there a way I can tell it had properly been maintained. Anything I should be looking for in the engine bay besides the usual used car buying stuff.

Appreciate the responses, and hopefully none of y'all get offended by my ignorance haha!

I want to start with the s2k is an amazing car but if we're being completely honest you can buy a car 6 to 11 years newer half the miles for 2k more. A 30k mile frs could be had for 17k all day. I could list all the reasons why I believe this is a better move but its your purchase.

[Re_Invention]

kCam - I'm with you but if you know you want an S2000 then the twins won't suffice no matter how newer with less miles or cheaper they are. I, and countless others, have tried jumping ship from S2000 to FRS/BRZ multiple times to be met with the reality that the Honda was a much better made car from the get-go with one of the best NA engines made, period, so in many ways it felt like a downgrade once you get past the new car smell. In my opinion the F20 outshines the C30 of the NSX, considering cost and production. Nothing like bouncing off a 9,000 rpm limiter with reciprocating pistons.

But without opinion, for the money looking to buy, I'll take a Twin any day of the week. For a DD, there's no question. For a fun car: twin. For an autocross of 'affordable' track car: twin. The twins are far more... consumable? They are the Camry's of the sporty car world, easy to ding/dent/break, fix or not, and move on. I think the S2000 is a great special car for enthusiasts to enjoy and may make a decent collector car down the road. But they are cars designed to stand abuse and live in the high stress world and SUCK driving at reasonable speeds. They have the thrill of a wet noodle below 6,000 rpms - even the shifter hates being moved with less than 8,000 rpms of engine vibration loosening up the gates. They are superbly engineered; really high quality stuff, a point of pride for the company. Unlike most fickle temperamental collector car the S2000 is best experienced at redline, repeatedly. Having BRZ track and S2000 track time, the S2000 is a far superior drive. But again, for the money, you get 90% of the thrill with a Twin for 60% of the money: apples to apples.

In my 5+ years of AP1 ownership I never had an oil consumption problem. I ran a Saiko Michi catch-can later in life to avoid hard turn smoking but no problems otherwise. The head was taken care of immediately after I got the car, budget between $400-800 for that depending on your DIY level. In fact, in 3 years of fun driving and 2 years of monthly event use it never once threw a code, only a secondary rad fan stopped working, never consumed anything excessively. It went through 3-4 sets of tires, had countless fluid changes, a set of brake pads and saw some miscellaneous upgrades. But ran just as good the day I sold it running on the AEM EMS with test pipe and several mods as it did when it was in factory condition. Even the soft top looked the same (maintained with cleaner and brushed).

Whatever you do, run a compression check before buying. The engines will run a long time with lots of abuse if maintained - compression check and look at fluids and ask about changes (receipts or logs) to prove upkeep. In my opinion there are few fail-fatal parts to the S2000 with the valve springs/retainers being the most common. Without committed upkeep they die faster than an average kept Civic due to the higher stresses.

I'm going to disagree with TofuRun - the S2000 is NOT made for tall people. I'm 6'2 and had to run a Backyard Special lower seat rail to drop an inch to fit underneath the softtop. With a helmet, I stick above the windshield. It is strictly for the Japanese audience in terms of size.

Jmark - same here, I can't fit in the ND with the top up, head pokes through the soft top, looks like a blister on top of the car.

I only sold the S2000 to move onto the next car. For fun-run's I don't miss the S2000 at all; I actually fit in the P-wagen and it's got even more interesting driving dynamics at sane speeds but I miss tinkering on the S2000 and autocrossing the hell outta it.

Regarding the lift-off oversteer. In my opinion it's only bad if driven like a donkey. You can run a square setup (up to 255 with slight clearance problems, 245 without any problems) if you want a little more predictability (linear) on turn in - I found the staggered setup to be disproportionate (compound). But the rear will still go regardless of tires or mods. The anti-bump mutes the rear on hard midcorner turn but doesn't change the root cause: the driver. Once you get the car, go to an autocross or drift event and find the limit with your tires; at least educate yourself on how far the car is comfortable being pushed before letting go. It's an easy $70 insurance investment in yourself.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

kCam - I'm with you but if you know you want an S2000 then the twins won't suffice no matter how newer with less miles or cheaper they are. I, and countless others, have tried jumping ship from S2000 to FRS/BRZ multiple times to be met with the reality that the Honda was a much better made car from the get-go with one of the best NA engines made, period, so in many ways it felt like a downgrade once you get past the new car smell. In my opinion the F20 outshines the C30 of the NSX, considering cost and production. Nothing like bouncing off a 9,000 rpm limiter with reciprocating pistons.

But without opinion, for the money looking to buy, I'll take a Twin any day of the week. For a DD, there's no question. For a fun car: twin. For an autocross of 'affordable' track car: twin. The twins are far more... consumable? They are the Camry's of the sporty car world, easy to ding/dent/break, fix or not, and move on. I think the S2000 is a great special car for enthusiasts to enjoy and may make a decent collector car down the road. But they are cars designed to stand abuse and live in the high stress world and SUCK driving at reasonable speeds. They have the thrill of a wet noodle below 6,000 rpms - even the shifter hates being moved with less than 8,000 rpms of engine vibration loosening up the gates. They are superbly engineered; really high quality stuff, a point of pride for the company. Unlike most fickle temperamental collector car the S2000 is best experienced at redline, repeatedly. Having BRZ track and S2000 track time, the S2000 is a far superior drive. But again, for the money, you get 90% of the thrill with a Twin for 60% of the money: apples to apples.

In my 5+ years of AP1 ownership I never had an oil consumption problem. I ran a Saiko Michi catch-can later in life to avoid hard turn smoking but no problems otherwise. The head was taken care of immediately after I got the car, budget between $400-800 for that depending on your DIY level. In fact, in 3 years of fun driving and 2 years of monthly event use it never once threw a code, only a secondary rad fan stopped working, never consumed anything excessively. It went through 3-4 sets of tires, had countless fluid changes, a set of brake pads and saw some miscellaneous upgrades. But ran just as good the day I sold it running on the AEM EMS with test pipe and several mods as it did when it was in factory condition. Even the soft top looked the same (maintained with cleaner and brushed).

Whatever you do, run a compression check before buying. The engines will run a long time with lots of abuse if maintained - compression check and look at fluids and ask about changes (receipts or logs) to prove upkeep. In my opinion there are few fail-fatal parts to the S2000 with the valve springs/retainers being the most common. Without committed upkeep they die faster than an average kept Civic due to the higher stresses.

I'm going to disagree with TofuRun - the S2000 is NOT made for tall people. I'm 6'2 and had to run a Backyard Special lower seat rail to drop an inch to fit underneath the softtop. With a helmet, I stick above the windshield. It is strictly for the Japanese audience in terms of size.

Jmark - same here, I can't fit in the ND with the top up, head pokes through the soft top, looks like a blister on top of the car.

I only sold the S2000 to move onto the next car. For fun-run's I don't miss the S2000 at all; I actually fit in the P-wagen and it's got even more interesting driving dynamics at sane speeds but I miss tinkering on the S2000 and autocrossing the hell outta it.

Regarding the lift-off oversteer. In my opinion it's only bad if driven like a donkey. You can run a square setup (up to 255 with slight clearance problems, 245 without any problems) if you want a little more predictability (linear) on turn in - I found the staggered setup to be disproportionate (compound). But the rear will still go regardless of tires or mods. The anti-bump mutes the rear on hard midcorner turn but doesn't change the root cause: the driver. Once you get the car, go to an autocross or drift event and find the limit with your tires; at least educate yourself on how far the car is comfortable being pushed before letting go. It's an easy $70 insurance investment in yourself.

ND vs. S2000
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ternal-battle/

[WolfpackS2k]

The S2000 scene sure has gotten a bit nutty over the last few years. I bought my 2007 S2000 in December 2008 with 4800 original miles for $21,300. It was, for all intents and purposes, brand new (MSRP of $34,500). Traded it in 4 years and 60,000 miles later for a Subaru BRZ, got $19000 at the time. For the most part I switched to a BRZ b/c I wanted something a bit more practical. I knew (and thought I could deal with) it would be a noticeable performance downgrade.

I'm 6'2" and can echo the comments of other tall drivers - it's a snug fit. I was still able to fit inside the car while helmeted but if the car ever flipped I would have been dead or paralyzed from the neck down, that's for sure. If serious about tracking you'll probably want to install a roll bar and/or an aftermarket seat that gives you more leg room.

As to reliability and durability, if properly maintained the S2000's drivetrain is bulletproof. Outside of needing two replacement soft tops the car was rock solid reliable. All it needed to rock a track HPDE was a swap to race brake pads.

If I fit better inside an S2000 I'd be tempted to buy one again in the future. But everytime I drive my father's S (he owns a 2005 model) I can't believe how cramped the interior is!

Finally, as someone else mentioned on page 1, www.s2ki.com is a wealth of knowledge for the S2000. And most of the posters over there are really friendly and knowledgeable fellows. I still frequent those boards fairly often.

EDIT: Oh and BTW, the clutch delay valve in that car drove me CRAZY. It was the worst! And really wasn't just the CDV at fault. Honda did a bad job on the AP2s of matching proper springs to handle the (overly heavy) flywheel they used. Fast shifting with aggressive throttle usage resulted in a lot of clutch slip. 2-3 seconds of slip when going from 5th gear redline into 6th gear (granted, that doesn't happen often). But I'd notice it to some degree after a fast 2-3 shift.

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by jmark

ND vs. S2000
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ternal-battle/

Now for the interior. Every Miata ever built has been a masterpiece of interior minimalism, offering the maximum possible space. Every control is easily and instantly accessible. The gauges are simple and useful. The S2000 has less usable space than a Miata, less room for a helmet-wearing head, and a dashboard that looks like the designers were given a 1984 Corvette and told to copy the gauges while also, if possible, saving twelve dollars.

Advantage: Miata.


So the Miata is a masterpiece of minimalism yet the S2000 came without a clock and it gets dinged for having a functional digital tachometer which is infinitely easier to read out of your peripheral when driving hard? The S2000 is called a TR7 in styling whereas there's no mention that the Miata's have copied the Jag/British styling since day 1? But this sort of blatant subjectivity is common with the writer. Regarding the height, the numbers favor the Miata on paper but my experience was entirely different, couldn't fit sitting upright with the top up.

And I love this: "No street car in history has ever offered this kind of instant access to the limit of grip. Period, point blank." Gotta love those bold statements, no mention of the other contenders: the Twins, Elise, Cayman, 4C, Super 7 clone, or any track day special in the past 30 years?

This is typical Baruth BS, same shaggy hair guy who shit all over the twins when they came out but was smiling like an idiot during the video, who drove a lime green S5 for the 'shock value' and proclaimed the V6 Honda Accord in manual to be the best sports car ever made (I'm exaggerating on the last part). This guy lives to stir up drama for webpage hits which supports his family, so more power to him. But anything he writes should be taken with a grain of salt given the motivation. He did it on the Car Lounge for a decade+, then for Jezabel..er TTAC and is a self-touted troll with a reeking sense of entitlement and poor humor. I'm actually upset I know this much about a writer... Christ, I need a hobby.

How he got a position at R&T is shocking but also says something about R&T's writing in the past few years.

[funwheeldrive]

Every Miata ever built has been a masterpiece of interior minimalism, offering the maximum possible space.

LOL. That's why they taped an iPad on the dash, right?

[jmark]

I fit OK in the S2000. Not so much in the new ND. Might be fun for a day. Not for a daily driver.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

Now for the interior. Every Miata ever built has been a masterpiece of interior minimalism, offering the maximum possible space. Every control is easily and instantly accessible. The gauges are simple and useful. The S2000 has less usable space than a Miata, less room for a helmet-wearing head, and a dashboard that looks like the designers were given a 1984 Corvette and told to copy the gauges while also, if possible, saving twelve dollars.

Advantage: Miata.


So the Miata is a masterpiece of minimalism yet the S2000 came without a clock and it gets dinged for having a functional digital tachometer which is infinitely easier to read out of your peripheral when driving hard? The S2000 is called a TR7 in styling whereas there's no mention that the Miata's have copied the Jag/British styling since day 1? But this sort of blatant subjectivity is common with the writer. Regarding the height, the numbers favor the Miata on paper but my experience was entirely different, couldn't fit sitting upright with the top up.

And I love this: "No street car in history has ever offered this kind of instant access to the limit of grip. Period, point blank." Gotta love those bold statements, no mention of the other contenders: the Twins, Elise, Cayman, 4C, Super 7 clone, or any track day special in the past 30 years?

This is typical Baruth BS, same shaggy hair guy who shit all over the twins when they came out but was smiling like an idiot during the video, who drove a lime green S5 for the 'shock value' and proclaimed the V6 Honda Accord in manual to be the best sports car ever made (I'm exaggerating on the last part). This guy lives to stir up drama for webpage hits which supports his family, so more power to him. But anything he writes should be taken with a grain of salt given the motivation. He did it on the Car Lounge for a decade+, then for Jezabel..er TTAC and is a self-touted troll with a reeking sense of entitlement and poor humor. I'm actually upset I know this much about a writer... Christ, I need a hobby.

How he got a position at R&T is shocking but also says something about R&T's writing in the past few years.

[kcam86]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

kCam - I'm with you but if you know you want an S2000 then the twins won't suffice no matter how newer with less miles or cheaper they are. I, and countless others, have tried jumping ship from S2000 to FRS/BRZ multiple times to be met with the reality that the Honda was a much better made car from the get-go with one of the best NA engines made, period, so in many ways it felt like a downgrade once you get past the new car smell. In my opinion the F20 outshines the C30 of the NSX, considering cost and production. Nothing like bouncing off a 9,000 rpm limiter with reciprocating pistons.

But without opinion, for the money looking to buy, I'll take a Twin any day of the week. For a DD, there's no question. For a fun car: twin. For an autocross of 'affordable' track car: twin. The twins are far more... consumable? They are the Camry's of the sporty car world, easy to ding/dent/break, fix or not, and move on. I think the S2000 is a great special car for enthusiasts to enjoy and may make a decent collector car down the road. But they are cars designed to stand abuse and live in the high stress world and SUCK driving at reasonable speeds. They have the thrill of a wet noodle below 6,000 rpms - even the shifter hates being moved with less than 8,000 rpms of engine vibration loosening up the gates. They are superbly engineered; really high quality stuff, a point of pride for the company. Unlike most fickle temperamental collector car the S2000 is best experienced at redline, repeatedly. Having BRZ track and S2000 track time, the S2000 is a far superior drive. But again, for the money, you get 90% of the thrill with a Twin for 60% of the money: apples to apples.

In my 5+ years of AP1 ownership I never had an oil consumption problem. I ran a Saiko Michi catch-can later in life to avoid hard turn smoking but no problems otherwise. The head was taken care of immediately after I got the car, budget between $400-800 for that depending on your DIY level. In fact, in 3 years of fun driving and 2 years of monthly event use it never once threw a code, only a secondary rad fan stopped working, never consumed anything excessively. It went through 3-4 sets of tires, had countless fluid changes, a set of brake pads and saw some miscellaneous upgrades. But ran just as good the day I sold it running on the AEM EMS with test pipe and several mods as it did when it was in factory condition. Even the soft top looked the same (maintained with cleaner and brushed).

Whatever you do, run a compression check before buying. The engines will run a long time with lots of abuse if maintained - compression check and look at fluids and ask about changes (receipts or logs) to prove upkeep. In my opinion there are few fail-fatal parts to the S2000 with the valve springs/retainers being the most common. Without committed upkeep they die faster than an average kept Civic due to the higher stresses.

I'm going to disagree with TofuRun - the S2000 is NOT made for tall people. I'm 6'2 and had to run a Backyard Special lower seat rail to drop an inch to fit underneath the softtop. With a helmet, I stick above the windshield. It is strictly for the Japanese audience in terms of size.

Jmark - same here, I can't fit in the ND with the top up, head pokes through the soft top, looks like a blister on top of the car.

I only sold the S2000 to move onto the next car. For fun-run's I don't miss the S2000 at all; I actually fit in the P-wagen and it's got even more interesting driving dynamics at sane speeds but I miss tinkering on the S2000 and autocrossing the hell outta it.

Regarding the lift-off oversteer. In my opinion it's only bad if driven like a donkey. You can run a square setup (up to 255 with slight clearance problems, 245 without any problems) if you want a little more predictability (linear) on turn in - I found the staggered setup to be disproportionate (compound). But the rear will still go regardless of tires or mods. The anti-bump mutes the rear on hard midcorner turn but doesn't change the root cause: the driver. Once you get the car, go to an autocross or drift event and find the limit with your tires; at least educate yourself on how far the car is comfortable being pushed before letting go. It's an easy $70 insurance investment in yourself.

I agree 100% Im just frugal Im the guy that looks at fun and cost as one of the same. Everything has to be "cost effective" to me to be fun.