Wheels, tires and ride comfort.

[kch]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Do you mind sharing the specs on your alignment? I'm hoping to change mine soon to -3.2 f and -2.6 rear.

Front: -3.4 camber, 0 toe, max caster (around 6.8)
Rear: -2.2 camber, 0.2 toe

Edit: I'm about to install some SPL FLCAs, which will let me play with the numbers a bit more. But those are the specs I've used for a couple years now.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by kch

Front: -3.4 camber, 0 toe, max caster (around 6.8)
Rear: -2.2 camber, 0.2 toe

Edit: I'm about to install some SPL FLCAs, which will let me play with the numbers a bit more. But those are the specs I've used for a couple years now.

Thanks!


SPL parts are nice! Are you max camber in the front now? Also, do our cars have OEM caster adj?


Thanks again!

[kch]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Thanks!


SPL parts are nice! Are you max camber in the front now? Also, do our cars have OEM caster adj?


Thanks again!

No, could get a few more tenths in the front on my current setup, but I still daily the car and don't want to get *too* crazy. And no OEM caster adjustment. I'm using raceseng cascam plates.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by kch

No, could get a few more tenths in the front on my current setup, but I still daily the car and don't want to get *too* crazy. And no OEM caster adjustment. I'm using raceseng cascam plates.

Thanks! I figured as much about the caster adj.


I recently replaced a bunch of suspension parts... I look into how to add caster more.



I don't want to get Too Crazy either. It happens sometimes though.

Thanks again!

[Decep]

Originally Posted by kch

Front: -3.4 camber, 0 toe, max caster (around 6.8)
Rear: -2.2 camber, 0.2 toe

Edit: I'm about to install some SPL FLCAs, which will let me play with the numbers a bit more. But those are the specs I've used for a couple years now.

any excessive wear due to running that much camber at highway speeds/straight line cruising?

[kch]

Originally Posted by Decep

any excessive wear due to running that much camber at highway speeds/straight line cruising?

Nope. Toe ruins tires more than camber, and I'm zeroed out in the front.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by kch

Nope. Toe ruins tires more than camber, and I'm zeroed out in the front.

That's good to know! Thanks!


I was curious about -3 or more camber in the front...


I knew that -1.5 front and -2.2 rear didn't cause any uneven wear, as I have had those specs for 65,000 miles.


Thanks again!

[churchx]

Depends on where most of wear for one happens. If one does 5-10 or more trackdays per year, then camber of -3 is beneficial, as 4/5th of tire thread will be worn on track and if anything, they will wear more even and will last a bit longer.
If one never tracks, or at most 1-2 trackdays, then -3 might be excessive, and imho some -1.5 may be more reasonable.
If one does more then 10 trackdays, i doubt any tires will last longer then that anyway

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by churchx

Depends on where most of wear for one happens. If one does 5-10 or more trackdays per year, then camber of -3 is beneficial, as 4/5th of tire thread will be worn on track and if anything, they will wear more even and will last a bit longer.
If one never tracks, or at most 1-2 trackdays, then -3 might be excessive, and imho some -1.5 may be more reasonable.
If one does more then 10 trackdays, i doubt any tires will last longer then that anyway

I don't think that tracking the car has to do with the amount of camber being reasonable. If the tire wear is acceptable to the owner, then it is by definition "reasonable"

[churchx]

"reasonable" in my book - changes handling to wished, enhances grip, makes wear better. On all these accounts it's different for if car is daily driven vs tracked.

For example - when daily driving (within legal limits) car never sees such side-Gs for tires to flex enough to need lot of static camber to compensate, thus with less camber tire contact patch will be more even/better (for driving mostly straight, in turns taken at reasonable/legal speeds, or when there is lack of grip, eg. when wet/on ice/on snow), resulting better traction when accelerating, better stopping distances, better tire wear. Car also will tend less to "follow" longitudinal road grooves.

On track with high side-Gs you get more even contact patch and more grip with more camber to counter that tire sidewall flex. Faster laptimes, even "track" tire wear, not just chewed tire outer side with rest of tire still having loads of thread left. No "enthusiastic driving"/"fast canyon runs" on public roads will provide those loads, unless one goes at 2-3 times posted speed limits, endangers himself and others on road and such.

After i did my first 5 track days, i had worn around 3/4ths of total tire thread, even if total mileage on track was just small portion of daily driven mileage on public roads.

Due all that above is why i "link" advisable/"reasonable"/best chosen camber when doing alignment to amount car gets tracked. Most wear happens on track - choose more track oriented alignment. Never or rarely tracking and just ramping up tens of thousands miles on daily driven public roads? - car benefits more of daily driving alignment if you want to maximize setup.

Of course except wear/handling/performance there can be reasons such as some stance/camber "scene" thing, eg. "hella-camber", or if one chooses unreasonable wheel/tire choice (too wide and/or staggered), and needs that extra camber simply to not rub/clear fender arches & suspension bits. But such are minority, and i don't care much about such reasoning, as for me it's always function over form and i choose specific tires/wheels/alignment settings only for performance/handling/practical (eg. even wear thus money saving) reasons.

[Leonardo]

So many assumptions... If the word was "Optimal", I would agree with you.

[NoHaveMSG]

Almost 40k miles on my street tires at -3F, -2R and the amount of camber wear is negligible.

[churchx]

Excessive toe usually wears down much more. Hence the reason many cars (including ours) have at very least toe adjustment stock. After all, toe = wheel preturned all the time to (toe-in, positive value) or from (toe-out, negative value) centerline, hence it drags tire slightly sideways, increasing wear, even when tracking straight.
Wrong camber for use provides extra wear less. It more affects unevenness of wear, "camber wear". If car tires won't wear much for eg. mentioned 40K miles, then lot of static negative camber won't add much "extra" wear, rather that same wear will be distributed more to tire inside then center/outside, due wheel always skewed a bit sideways. It will "increase" wear mostly in sense, that if one side of tire is down to tire cord, it makes little sense to keep using tire, even if other parts of tire still have lot of thread left, due wrong camber wear.