Clutch Issue with Dealer and HPDE

[yzarc0g]

Please Remove Post

[husker741]

Well even though the car is marketed as a track car and it's stupid they are messing with you, you did lie and tell them it's never been tracked. So although they don't wanna warranty it, you are trying to get something fixed that could possibly be messed up do to your tracking.

[mothespaceman]

Man, you can't seriously expect the dealership to warranty a broken clutch when the car has been tracked, can you?

I realize that the car is a 'performance car' but I have never seen a dealer warranty a part that is commonly thrashed on a track (clutch, brakes etc...) when the car has indeed, been abused on a track.

A warranty is designed to protect a buyer from car malfunction or issue during normal driving conditions. Worn track pads, seriously warn tires and an exploded clutch do NOT happen under normal driving conditions.

You're going to have to fix this one on your own, short of somehow being able to manipulate the dealer into fixing it for you.

[FirestormFRS]

Unless Toyota somehow graces you with a mulligan, you are paying for this one out of your own pocket.

Fraud is illegal btw.

[yzarc0g]

How is this fraud? Why does it matter that I participated in a High Performance Driving Education event?
I wasn't racing - that is illegal without a competition license. The clutch simply snapped while driving. Why would a clutch snap it half during an UP shift? The warranty states "What's not covered? - Misuse — for example, racing or
overloading"

I did not race, I drove smoothly on a racetrack in a non-competitive event under instruction

I did not overload - I didn't mod the car except brakes and tires. I probably drove it no harder than anyone else on this forum getting on an on or off ramp.

The clutch that is still there is not worn, the flywheel isn't worn, so what gives? Faulty Part!!

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by yzarc0g

How is this fraud? Why does it matter that I participated in a High Performance Driving Education event?
I wasn't racing - that is illegal without a competition license. The clutch simply snapped while driving. Why would a clutch snap it half during an UP shift? The warranty states "What's not covered? - Misuse — for example, racing or
overloading"

I did not race, I drove smoothly on a racetrack in a non-competitive event under instruction

I did not overload - I didn't mod the car except brakes and tires. I probably drove it no harder than anyone else on this forum getting on an on or off ramp.

The clutch that is still there is not worn, the flywheel isn't worn, so what gives? Faulty Part!!

Fraud? Answer this question: Did you take your car to the race track? Your first posts says you did, yet you answered no when asked by the service manager.

Racing? You do not need a competition license to race. This isn't Gran Turismo.

Clutches can break under any shifting condition where there's a load applied. Upshift or down.

Misuse: racing (see above), or overloading. Both can happen at the track.

How did you drive smoothly? What is the definition of a smooth driver?

In any case, your best bet at this point is to 1) find a lawer that will help you out, or 2) pay for the expenses yourself. At face value, my advice to you is to not have unrealistic expectations of what an automotive warranty is.

-alex

[Danklvr]

if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..... just sayin....

[strat61caster]

From the handy dandy book in your glovebox covering the warranty:
(Link, pdf is on the right)

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
This warranty does not cover damage
or failures resulting directly or
indirectly from any of the following:
>Fire, accidents or theft
>Abuse or negligence
>Misuse — for example, racing or
overloading
>Improper repairs
>Alteration or tampering, including
installation of non-Scion Authorized
Accessories
>Lack of or improper maintenance,
including use of fluids other than
those specified in the
Owner’s
Manual
>Installation of non-Scion Authorized
Parts
>Airborne chemicals, tree sap, road
debris (including stone chips), rail
dust, salt, hail, floods, wind storms,
lightning and other environmental
conditions
>Water contamination
This warranty also does not cover the
following:
Tires
Tires are covered by a separate
warranty provided by the tire
manufacturer. See page 28.
Normal Wear and Tear
Noise, vibration, cosmetic conditions
and other deterioration caused by
normal wear and tear

(apologies for the wonky format, I copy pasted)

So, in my book and many others, an HPDE is not competitive in any sense (no timing, no passing, no keeping track of results) and as such is not "racing" and many have argued that successfully, many unsuccessfully.

I think the only thing really worth discussing is did the clutch fail due to abuse or manufacturer defect? There are a handful of clutches that have failed out of the blue on here if you search around and your description jives with that, I would fight to have it covered under warranty if I was in your position.

You goofed up lying to the service manager, I would have refused to answer the questions he asked as it does not pertain to the warranty. If you go into the dispute with a Toyota corporate rep and explain that you were afraid of an unjust warranty denial and come clean that's really all you can do.

Yes, you might get stuck with the bill in the end and for all we know it really was abuse that killed the clutch.

Hope it works out, in the grand scheme of things a sooner than expected clutch replacement isn't the end of the world.

[White64Goat]

"and an exploded clutch do NOT happen under normal driving conditions."

Um, well back in the mid-70's when Pontiac had the Sunbird they came out with the V-6 in it, manual trans and the car had too much power, too much weight and too small a clutch disc and they did come apart under normal enthusiastic driving conditions. I worked for Pontiac back then and can verify that happened.

[Lavalover]

The perfect opportunity to upgrade the clutch. Better than paying money to a lawyer.

[Mr 286]

Originally Posted by Lavalover

The perfect opportunity to upgrade the clutch. Better than paying money to a lawyer.

Eh, stock clutch is up to par with the stock power. Upgraded clutches that will probably wear faster than the OEM clutch are one of the biggest wastes of money that could go to other mods in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FirestormFRS]

Originally Posted by White64Goat

"and an exploded clutch do NOT happen under normal driving conditions."

Um, well back in the mid-70's when Pontiac had the Sunbird they came out with the V-6 in it, manual trans and the car had too much power, too much weight and too small a clutch disc and they did come apart under normal enthusiastic driving conditions. I worked for Pontiac back then and can verify that happened.

This is Subaru. GM sucks. This car does not overpower the clutch. Apples and oranges.

[markw]

The burden is on the manufacturer to prove that what he did caused the failure. An occasional autocross or track day would be completely within the realm of "normal use" for a car sold as a sports car. He may need to get a lawyer, but the law is on his side. Here's a good read.

http://www.fd3s.net/lemon_site/saga.htm

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So, in my book and many others, an HPDE is not competitive in any sense (no timing, no passing, no keeping track of results) and as such is not "racing" and many have argued that successfully, many unsuccessfully.

Except in the warranty does not provide an all-inclusive list of what is considered misuse, it merely uses "racing" as an example. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch for the manufacturer to say that the exact same behavior as racing, with the exception of being a timed event for points, would also fall under the category of misuse.

It also lists "overloading" as an example. Since this car's power level is well matched to the clutch, it would only be overloaded as a result of poor technique. Since he was going to a borderline-racing track day whose stated purpose is driver education, then it follows that his clutch technique might not have been the greatest and that's why he needed education.

I can see why the dealer, or the manufacturer, would be inclined to deny the warranty. If my clutch shit the bed right now, at 10K miles, with only daily driving and no track days, HDPE, or autocross, then it would be more difficult for them to get out of it.