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06-30-2017, 09:32 AM | #15 | |
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Boiling brake fluid is an irrelevant consideration. Water contamination in the fluid is often confused with boiling fluid itself. Flush brake fluid completely at least every three years and in very humid climates every two years. |
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06-30-2017, 09:38 AM | #16 | |
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I was just hoping you'd post. No misinformation in my post, how about yours? Most people who think their brake fluid boiled actually suffered from water contamination from failure to flush their system regularly. Standard brake fluid is sufficient. Water boils at only 100C (212F and then only at sea level) as you may recall. I find Stop Tech technical information useful: http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...rs/brake-fluid As for your claim about high performance brake pads stopping as well as street pads when cold, I say total bs. Got any third party facts to back that up? As you are well aware, my remarks are aimed at people trying to improve their cars for street use. If you are using street tires (especially stock tires) harder pads should be all you need for occasional track use. Trying to turn a BRZ into a race car is just a dumb idea. |
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06-30-2017, 10:36 AM | #17 | ||||
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You also don't ever qualify your statements for usage, and make blanket statements claiming universal facts. I've never seen you ask someone "how do you plan to use it", instead you just go off on tangents with no facts to back up your opinion. Yet another unfounded opinion not based on any facts at all.
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06-30-2017, 11:00 AM | #18 | |
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If you quote one of my facts I'll get you the back up. I say bs to your brake fluid boiling "easily". What were the measured caliper temperatures at which you say you boiled your "fresh" brake fluid (from a previously unopened container and into a fully flushed system,presumably). How will anyone know your video is objectively correct? How about a brake pad supplier who makes the same claim as you do. Just btw, your Ferodo 2500 are just a hard street pad, if you want proper track performance Ferodo makes much more suitable pads, not streetable though. I use "harder" to mean higher temperature. In fact, competition brake pads are harder, wear more slowly and require higher line pressures to work as designed. "Harder" is an appropriate adjective. Higher temperature resistance seems a bit cumbersome as a description albeit more accurate. Heat capacity is not something you want in a brake pad. You want heat insulating capability to keep the heat going into the rotors and away from the calipers (duh). Heat capacity needs to be in the rotors and, more accurately, heat dissipation capability. The op was clearly asking for useful replies to his valid concerns that he was unsure whether his brake modifications were an improvement over stock and if so how to determine by how much. He clearly stated it was for a street application. My reply was intended to broaden the scope of investigation of the topic of improving the street capability of the stock BRZ brake. My opinion is that the stock BRZ brakes are way over spec for street driving and cannot usefully be improved at all. It will be interesting to see if the factory Brembo option actually changes brake performance for road use. My prediction is that it will not. The stock BRZ brakes are already from a much heavier model, the Impreza WRX. As for spending money on your BRZ to create a track car I support my opinion by referring to the factory stated objective of making a proper sports car with a comfortable ride for the street. I further support my opinion by referring to the factory upgrades for 2017 decreasing the rear spring rate and rebalancing the chassis for more understeer and less abrupt oversteer. These virtues can be improved upon further by making the modifications I have made over the four years I have owned my BRZ. With the supercharger fitted and the carefully chosen modifications I have made I have produced a car that my racing addicted buddy claims is one of the best little sportscars he has ever driven. His daily driver? A Mclaren 12C. His racecars include a F1 Shadow and a Canam car..... Over to you now Mr racecar |
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06-30-2017, 01:09 PM | #19 |
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Go away.
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06-30-2017, 03:03 PM | #20 | ||||||||
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The DOT 3 boiling point spec is 140C wet and 205C dry, and wet boiling point is the only one that matters because it'll start absorbing moisture as soon as you open the bottle. Entry level performance fluids have wet boiling points >= 200C, the fluid I've been running (Castrol SRF) is 270C wet. Because I have better things to do than fake a video to prove someone on the internet wrong? Fly yourself out this way and drive for the video. Quote:
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Where's the data backing up needing higher line pressures? A higher co-efficient of friction pad will actually need less pressure to slow the car down the same amount. I need VERY little pedal pressure to stop my car on the R10's, significantly less than the stock pads (same day, same wheels/tires, etc). Read through the heat ranges and descriptions here: http://www.g-locbrakes.com/products/brake-compounds/ A lot of race pads actually wear faster to be more gentle to the rotors, but that varies by manufacturer and compound. Honestly, it sounds like you're basing what you post on information that is about 20 years outdated. Modern pad compounds are WAY different than a couple decades ago. Quote:
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06-30-2017, 04:11 PM | #21 | |
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06-30-2017, 04:23 PM | #22 | |||||||
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There's a lot of homebrew theory here, so I'm gonna correct the incorrect conclusions you've reached via good initial data and hearsay.
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F1 brakes run hot because they are mandated to not run anything larger. Temperature = heat input / thermal capacity. They have very little thermal capacity due to mass and surface area. Note, that I use the word mass, not size. Quote:
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Disk brakes do indeed fade, because the pads paired up with them fade. I use the same pad compound on my BRZ as what I prescribe for NASCAR and Indy teams I consult for. I have zero issue braking at cold temps. In fact, my cold bite is greater than that of the OEM pad by a long shot. Brake dynos of my pad verify that. No I will not be releasing this information, as the teams that have paid for it own the dyno graphs. Quote:
Larger brakes = more thermal capacity = more sustained performance over repeated braking events. Quote:
However, when CCB rotors fail, they fail catastrophically, unlike steel rotors. Big budget racing teams replace the rotors *EVERY* event to prevent this type of failure. Quote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOGJxgJjVo5/ That maximum temp was exceeded on *stock* tires *in the rain*. I also set a new class record that day in semi-wet weather. |
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06-30-2017, 04:25 PM | #23 | |
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Brake fluid does not degrade faster in a more humid climate, unless your braking system is not sealed (compromised). But, if your system is not sealed, you got bigger issues. |
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06-30-2017, 04:26 PM | #24 | |
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BN2nVdJjUAY/ |
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06-30-2017, 04:39 PM | #25 |
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CSG Mike: you are doing it wrong, trying to convince troll with real facts. One should use flattery/bribes or threats for that!
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06-30-2017, 06:21 PM | #26 | |
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07-01-2017, 08:54 AM | #27 | |
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You'll need to explain the heat impulse idea. The capacity remark is also incomplete. Are you talking about making a hot brake system suddenly hotter when you first apply the brakes hard or a cold system suddenly hot? Are you suggesting the BRZ needs larger brake caliper cylinder volume? My point is that any road car needs brake pads that deliver maximum performance from cold. The very first stop of the day might be your last. Using track pads on the street is just plain dangerous. Last edited by Gforce; 07-01-2017 at 09:18 AM. |
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07-01-2017, 08:56 AM | #28 | |
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brakes, rotors, temperature |
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