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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 08-15-2012, 03:07 PM   #393
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^^Lacks power? I'm inclined to agree with you. Certainly, it lacks power that is easy to find. But I haven't got my hands on a car long enough . . . maybe keeping it at 6-7K rpm is the way to find some happiness in all this.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:40 PM   #394
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I owned Miata and cant handle convertible road noise and my wife said "No more convertible" that s2k is not an option for me. I would take s2k with hardtop personally if i dont have my lovely wife. lol

when i test drove both FR-S/BRZ, i was very impressed on handling and it was like driving my old miata. i hope mine arrive in state very soon!!
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:12 PM   #395
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^^Lacks power? I'm inclined to agree with you. Certainly, it lacks power that is easy to find. But I haven't got my hands on a car long enough . . . maybe keeping it at 6-7K rpm is the way to find some happiness in all this.
The power is perfect for putting down around corners, but when you power out to the straights, it's pretty uneventful. This car makes the S2k feel like a rocket in terms of straightline speed. The aero is definitely amazing on the BRZ though. Hitting the Turn 1 & 2 banking at ACS at full throttle was very confidence inspiring at 125mph. I know CSG Mike was hitting 133mph at one point entering Turn 1 when he caught a draft. Even so, car did not want to fish its way to the wall. Brakes, again, are simply amazing. Two-piston floating caliper with a much beefier brake pad up front and possibly a larger Master cylinder. Those are the two things I wish the S2k was a little better at right now: aero and brakes. Power in the S2k >> 200hp BRZ/FR-S.

I can't wait until we can start developing the car further. The potential is very high for this car.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:42 PM   #396
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I bought a 2004 S2000 instead of BRZ. I have test driven the FRS in a mini autocross test drive and have had my S2000 for a month now. Here's how I came to this conclusion:

Pros for the S2000:
- Cost: You're paying twice as much for a brand new car with less performance. It's not that hard to find a well taken care of S2K right now. Although some immediate maintainence cost Involved with buying used.
- Cost: GAS. S2000 will suck you dry. Toyobaru will be way better in gas comsumption. But keep in mind that you're paying a "new car premium" in the price difference. so this is not a valid reason to buy the Toyobaru over the S2000.
- Faster, that 40 extra HP and 10ft/lb of torque is OBVIOUS. In my experience at the mini auto cross test drive event thingy, it felt like it took an eternity for the FRS to hit redline in first gear. S2000? not a problem.
- Heritage: I don't have a brand bias. In fact, I didn't care for Hondas until searching for the S2000, but one thing that bothered me was the thought of "Honda has done the same thing 10 years ago... with more performance". So the fact that the FRS isn't able to match the power output feels disappointing to me. Of course, some might argue that the S2000 was priced significantly higher back when it was in production. BUT, this doesn't matter in the present as logically, one should only look at how much performance the same amount of money can buy. I also think that the Toyobaru isn't as much of a engineering marvel as it was hyped out to be.
- 2 seater convertable: this one is very subjective. I sold my motorcycle for a car, so a convertable was the closest thing to it. I'd definitely prefer a coupe though if it were available. Being a 2 seater also doesn't matter to me. I hate doing favors and driving people around out of kindness. so now I have the perfect excuse not to.

Pros for the Toyobaru:
- comfort: coupe > convertible in road noises. more gadgetry such as GPS, dual zone climate control, heated seats, keyless entry... all of which I wish the S2K has. Also, you passenger won't bitch at you about having only ONE wind outlet, while you have 2 on the driver's side.
- more cargo room: Ok, it's a little annoying in a 2 seater when your girl gets in and your jacket is in the way. You don't want to trouble her by asking her to hold on to it, so you have to physically get out and put it in the trunk...

I should note that, I'm not trying to bash the Toyobaru in any way. It's great that these manufacturers are trying to bring the RWD sports car back from the grave. However, my main beef with it was that it didn't perform as I eagerly hoped it would. It didn't wow me on my mutiple test drives. I was looking for a light weight car that can go fast and handles like a go cart. The Toyobaru just didn't quite make it to justify buying brand new AKA paying twice as much for less performance. It just wasn't logical in every angle I looked at it to justify buying the Toyobaru vs the S2000.
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:45 PM   #397
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The power is perfect for putting down around corners, but when you power out to the straights, it's pretty uneventful. This car makes the S2k feel like a rocket in terms of straightline speed. The aero is definitely amazing on the BRZ though. Hitting the Turn 1 & 2 banking at ACS at full throttle was very confidence inspiring at 125mph. I know CSG Mike was hitting 133mph at one point entering Turn 1 when he caught a draft. Even so, car did not want to fish its way to the wall. Brakes, again, are simply amazing. Two-piston floating caliper with a much beefier brake pad up front and possibly a larger Master cylinder. Those are the two things I wish the S2k was a little better at right now: aero and brakes. Power in the S2k >> 200hp BRZ/FR-S.

I can't wait until we can start developing the car further. The potential is very high for this car.


Yeah, the aero on the s2k was notably poor. The stock OEM felt "floaty" on the suspension once you got above 80 mph and had some significant air shooting under the car. It is telling that, when Honda had the chance to change the car with the CR, they concentrated on aero mods.

Re the s2k's power: It's funny that we are having this discussion. That car was crucified every day of its existence for not having enough power. It languished in the market place and it got no love from American motorheads. But the truth of the matter was that that engine was plenty powerful for that car, and VTEC is a gorgeous, beautiful thing in any Honda.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:09 PM   #398
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With all this talk about aero... how in the world do you even feel that? And how do you differentiate that sensation from other variables in the car?

On another note, I am itching to get an FR-S!
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:21 PM   #399
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I bought a 2004 S2000 instead of BRZ. I have test driven the FRS in a mini autocross test drive and have had my S2000 for a month now. Here's how I came to this conclusion:

Pros for the S2000:
- Cost: You're paying twice as much for a brand new car with less performance. It's not that hard to find a well taken care of S2K right now. Although some immediate maintainence cost Involved with buying used.
- Cost: GAS. S2000 will suck you dry. Toyobaru will be way better in gas comsumption. But keep in mind that you're paying a "new car premium" in the price difference. so this is not a valid reason to buy the Toyobaru over the S2000.
- Faster, that 40 extra HP and 10ft/lb of torque is OBVIOUS. In my experience at the mini auto cross test drive event thingy, it felt like it took an eternity for the FRS to hit redline in first gear. S2000? not a problem.
- Heritage: I don't have a brand bias. In fact, I didn't care for Hondas until searching for the S2000, but one thing that bothered me was the thought of "Honda has done the same thing 10 years ago... with more performance". So the fact that the FRS isn't able to match the power output feels disappointing to me. Of course, some might argue that the S2000 was priced significantly higher back when it was in production. BUT, this doesn't matter in the present as logically, one should only look at how much performance the same amount of money can buy. I also think that the Toyobaru isn't as much of a engineering marvel as it was hyped out to be.
- 2 seater convertable: this one is very subjective. I sold my motorcycle for a car, so a convertable was the closest thing to it. I'd definitely prefer a coupe though if it were available. Being a 2 seater also doesn't matter to me. I hate doing favors and driving people around out of kindness. so now I have the perfect excuse not to.

Pros for the Toyobaru:
- comfort: coupe > convertible in road noises. more gadgetry such as GPS, dual zone climate control, heated seats, keyless entry... all of which I wish the S2K has. Also, you passenger won't bitch at you about having only ONE wind outlet, while you have 2 on the driver's side.
- more cargo room: Ok, it's a little annoying in a 2 seater when your girl gets in and your jacket is in the way. You don't want to trouble her by asking her to hold on to it, so you have to physically get out and put it in the trunk...

I should note that, I'm not trying to bash the Toyobaru in any way. It's great that these manufacturers are trying to bring the RWD sports car back from the grave. However, my main beef with it was that it didn't perform as I eagerly hoped it would. It didn't wow me on my mutiple test drives. I was looking for a light weight car that can go fast and handles like a go cart. The Toyobaru just didn't quite make it to justify buying brand new AKA paying twice as much for less performance. It just wasn't logical in every angle I looked at it to justify buying the Toyobaru vs the S2000.

I agreed with you on all points. I gave up my S2K for the FRS because of something that means a lot more to me...back seats for the kids.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:07 PM   #400
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With all this talk about aero... how in the world do you even feel that? And how do you differentiate that sensation from other variables in the car?

On another note, I am itching to get an FR-S!
So at the track I mentioned (Autoclub Speedway) there is a straight that you can get up to about 125mph (Mike hit 133mph with draft) on the BRZ before you take the NASCAR left curve to hit a straight and then enter the infield. When you're "cornering" at 120+mph (S2ks with big wings are doing 130-135mph) the BRZ/FR-S is quite "planted". The rearend is significantly more stable than the base S2k. Even the CR will feel somewhat floaty, but that rear wing does keep the rearend a little more tame. I drove a base 08 AP2 prior to the BRZ and hit about 125mph+ before the turn. The moment I added a few degrees of angle, the car's rearend felt very floaty and there were noticeable corrections needed to be made with the steering. Since I didn't want to risk crashing someone's car, I decided to go 50% throttle instead of 100%. This dropped the speed down to about 115-120mph and did not feel very confident.

From that experience, I knew straight off the bat the aero on the BRZ/FR-S was significantly better than the S. The car still produces lift, but definitely not in the same order of magnitude that the S2 does.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:15 PM   #401
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I agreed with you on all points. I gave up my S2K for the FRS because of something that means a lot more to me...back seats for the kids.

No offense, but good luck with those back seats. I mean, I hope your kids have no legs. That didn't come out right. I mean, there is no leg room, kids or no kids. There. That's better.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:20 PM   #402
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^ huh what? lol
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:48 PM   #403
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Exactly.
ah.. I've heard of people going to the track. I'll try it sometime.:happy0180:
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:16 PM   #404
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ah.. I've heard of people going to the track. I'll try it sometime.:happy0180:

I'm sure you already noticed the difference between your Voltex 1S setup versus your CR wing I still want to check out your SS AP2 in person!!
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #405
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ah.. I've heard of people going to the track. I'll try it sometime.:happy0180:

Sorry. I didn't notice your sig.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:30 PM   #406
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No offense, but good luck with those back seats. I mean, I hope your kids have no legs. That didn't come out right. I mean, there is no leg room, kids or no kids. There. That's better.

My kids have been enjoying the back seats of my FRS for the past 1700 miles in comfort, thank you and come again.
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