Michelin Pilot Sport 4S available OEM size for our cars

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by ZDan

More comfortable is probably a negative for me, I felt the MPSS were too soft...

ANYway, glad to be able to dispel your misconceptions!

Actually, in that wall of text you just clarified your position. No misconceptions dispelled at all. We weren't talking about some events you ran in the past. Good on you that you did well those times. The subject was the kind of amazing wear you had reported from a set of RS3s (20k+ miles plus two track days) with plenty left over.

On your experience with MPSS from your words, essentially, you bought into a tire category designed for road comfort and good performance. Problem was you didn't really care much for the road comfort part at all. Afterwards, you felt disappointed by the trade-offs of that performance category and then blamed it on the tire. If there was any misconception it was probably that you expectations didn't match the product. Lesson learned I guess.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Actually, in that wall of text you just clarified your position. No misconceptions dispelled at all. We weren't talking about some events you ran in the past. Good on you that you did well those times. The subject was the kind of amazing wear you had reported from a set of RS3s (20k+ miles plus two track days) with plenty left over.

On your experience with MPSS from your words, essentially, you bought into a tire category designed for road comfort and good performance. Problem was you didn't really care much for the road comfort part at all. Afterwards, you felt disappointed by the trade-offs of that performance category and then blamed it on the tire. If there was any misconception it was probably that you expectations didn't match the product. Lesson learned I guess.

I didn't take it as him bagging the tire as much as bagging the Max Perf class as a whole. He was simply explaining why he prefers Extreme Perf tires over Max. At least that's what I gathered from it.

I've been through a gazillion sets of tires. Mostly street use. Fairly consistent autox from 1996 - 2003 or so. An occasional track day. I always regret trying to drop down to MaxPerf. Too bad the TireRack didn't have logins back in the day where I could pull up my order history going back to 1997.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Actually, in that wall of text you just clarified your position. No misconceptions dispelled at all. We weren't talking about some events you ran in the past.

I've been decently fast in the last few years as well. I wasn't referring specifically to 1999, I was talking about 1999 to present.

Good on you that you did well those times. The subject was the kind of amazing wear you had reported from a set of RS3s (20k+ miles plus two track days) with plenty left over.

I didn't say 20k+. I said "upwards of 20k". And I didn't say "with plenty left over".

I'll spell it out for you: ~18k or so miles with very little if any left to the treadwear indicators, including two track days at Mosport, one day of which was cold and rainy (May 3 2011).

The POINT I was making is that you can get decent life from "Extreme Performance" category 200 treadwear tires.

On your experience with MPSS from your words, essentially, you bought into a tire category designed for road comfort and good performance. Problem was you didn't really care much for the road comfort part at all.

Road comfort is fine, but I'd trade it for less isolation and more responsiveness.

Afterwards, you felt disappointed by the trade-offs of that performance category and then blamed it on the tire.

I believe I mentioned that my biggest beef was with the utter lack of all grip after less than two years old. I was at least *OK* with the tires other than that, but frankly on the street or at the track I didn't find them to be as fantastic as reviews had led me to believe.

If there was any misconception it was probably that you expectations didn't match the product. Lesson learned I guess.

Indeed. I learned that Michelin tires that are practically worshipped in some forums aren't really the 2nd coming of Christ. At *best*, they were "fine", and an OK compromise. At worst they were garbage...

[DAEMANO]

This was posted today, and it articulates some of this debate pretty well.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovwopvZLuNc"]Can you use track semi slicks tyres on a normal car? Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 vs Pilot Sport 4 S - YouTube[/ame]

[churchx]

Nice vid. Points in it doubled my confidence that MPS4S will be what will fit my needs/use pattern best.

[ermax]

How does that have anything to do with this debate? The debate was max perf vs extreme perf not max perf vs competition tires. The Pilot Sport Cup 2 is $300 per tire with 180 tread wear rating.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by ermax

How does that have anything to do with this debate? The debate was max perf vs extreme perf not max perf vs competition tires. The Pilot Sport Cup 2 is $300 per tire with 180 tread wear rating.

To answer your question, A reasonably curious person will likely be able to find helpful subjective indicators in the video that they can apply to the slighter lesser performance "extreme summer" 200TW category in place of the 180 TW Pilot Sport Cup 2s.

[Alltezza]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S are extremely good as a street tire.

Pretty expensive though. I'm torn between 4$ (ha see what I did there) and the Continental Extreme Contact Sport.

- andrew

I was dead set on grabbing the Continental ExtremeContactSport tires after my RS3s since the PSS and 4S are expensive af!!

This confuses me to hell, I was going to make a thread about this but I'd like to hop on this thread.

So this reddit post, long story short. Apparently our shitty stock primacy's have more grip than the Continental Extreme Contact Sport!? How is that possible? And this came from @CSG_Mike

And people are comparing Continental Extreme Contact Sport to Michelin PSS and their new PILOT SPORT 4S, someone help me out here



https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/commen...e_continental/

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

I was dead set on grabbing the Continental ExtremeContactSport tires after my RS3s since the PSS and 4S are expensive af!!

This confuses me to hell, I was going to make a thread about this but I'd like to hop on this thread.

So this reddit post, long story short. Apparently our shitty stock primacy's have more grip than the Continental Extreme Contact Sport!? How is that possible? And this came from @CSG_Mike

And people are comparing Continental Extreme Contact Sport to Michelin PSS and their new PILOT SPORT 4S, someone help me out here




https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/commen...e_continental/

[–]CSG_Mike 1 point 8 months ago
They do not. You don't have to believe me, but data doesn't lie.

@CSG_Mike do you have this data available anywhere?

Thanks!

[churchx]

JazzleSAURUS: it was 3/32 worn stock primacies vs new contis. Mike pointed out that of similar wear NEW primacies would have more grip then as much worn down conti too. I've heard often mentioned out that the most grip tire has in 1st 1/3rd of wear with often "lesser" new tires outperforming better but half worn ones (it was about winter tire braking length though), with some tires even marketed as retaining more grip even after higher levels of wear as one of their selling point, so i guess it's rather exception, then rule? 3/32 tire wear .. sounds like VERY easy to aquaplane in standing water to me.

[nikitopo]

It would be interesting to see an official comparison between Pilot Sport 4 and 4S, but it looks it will never happen for marketing and product positioning reasons. It looks that there aren't too many differences between the two tires. It was mentioned by the Auto Motor und Sport magazine that if they could test the Sport 4 together with the other high end tires like the Sportcontact 6 and P Zero , it would be placed somewhere in the first three positions.

Source (in German): https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...ort-4-im-test/

[churchx]

If MPSS was very popular choice and MPS4S supposedly next iteration of it, i'm sure that many will try it too next season given finally usable sizing availability, and many may post experiences/reviews here. Just wait a bit . Such first hand experiences of actual users i'd value above what manufacturer may say/market.

[venturaII]

Don't forget that it's easy to end up comparing the best of a Max Perf category with a 'meh' tire in the Extreme group. The difference will be even less pronounced, and once you consider how each tire ages when driven on the street, the gap is again reduced. An MPSS or Conti Extreme wouldn't be far off from the lower end of the next group up when new, and could easily end up performing virtually the same after several thousand miles of street use/heat cycling.

I have a set of Max Perf for the street and a set of Extremes for HPDE/autox. I just think it makes better financial sense in the long run, as well as more consistent performance across the life of the tires. I can't back this up with any serious number crunching, it's just an educated guess. It's also a PITA having to find storage space for several sets of tires.

[churchx]

It's not just storing. Also boot space for another wheel+tires set & jack, lost time mounting forth & back, costs of another rims set. To each his own, but i prefer to go at track, and while going at slower pace due tires and at shorter sessions (due pads, that i also use compromise to hybrid ones, not altering between dedicated street and track pad sets), but i still have my share of fun unspoiled with lost time on remounting wheels with specialized tires, extra spendings on 2nd wheel set, and not having to drive there car filled to brim with track-only parts & tools. Yes, those with more serious approach will get better speed/results or longer wear from untracked street tires .. i'm for fun & enjoyably spent time, not results & serious work. Thus less dedicated/more laidback approach that these tires looks like fitting 100%. Heck, even stock primacies served for few trackdays & still brought fun & enjoyment.