Moto East Crawford Power Blocks Testing & Dyno! - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Xero-Limit · 06-06-2014, 08:59 PM

We recently had a batch of folks come through on the dyno, and it just so happened that we had a car on race gas with a near identical setup to one we just tuned on e85. Only difference? Cat in the exhaust, and power blocks. E85 and 100 octane + will both hit peak torque with no knock.

The cat explains a couple HP at the top end, but the the power blocks and dyno really tell the story here. One is a P&L header (catted), the other is a p&l copy (we won't mention who). But for our purposes they are exactly the same.

Both cars spent several hours on the dyno last year, so for this reason you see the "humps" due to the hyper optimized VE. The more time we spend on the dyno the "rougher" the plot looks with more humps, simply because we can search through all the nooks and crannies for any HP to be had in the spots where VE is just really high. This is normal for an EL header.

So on with the show....see if you can spot the power blocks plot.

So what you can see here is that the power band is shifted. Our VE humps are shifted as well, and the top end we are fortunately able to recover any HP lost by altering cam phasing and increasing the timing. Verdict? Area under the curve is definitely improved. No doubt you will feel these in the 5500-6500 range bit time.

D K · 06-06-2014, 09:30 PM

Are thse YOUR power blocks or Crawford?

D

Xero-Limit · 06-06-2014, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D K

Are thse YOUR power blocks or Crawford?

D

Our power blocks usually involve some bricks and windshields for cars that fail to make power--so no, crawford it is (and fixed

)

uspspro · 06-07-2014, 06:50 PM

So these ~190 whp numbers were on a dynojet with E85 (or 100 octane)?

Just confirming.

Dynojets are usually pretty consistent, I was thinking ~10-15 more whp...

xwd · 06-07-2014, 06:59 PM

From Mike's description, the darker plot is E85, the lighter plot is 100.

fooddude · 06-07-2014, 08:11 PM

Confusing comparison..I give up reading lol

Fred E · 06-07-2014, 09:34 PM

Darker plot = E85, Crawford power blocks, catted header.
Lighter plot = Race gas, no Crawford power blocks, catless header.

enjoyminutemaid · 06-07-2014, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred E

Darker plot = E85, Crawford power blocks, catted header.
Lighter plot = Race gas, no Crawford power blocks, catless header.

I think you got that backward, based on Mike's post...

Deep Six · 06-07-2014, 11:28 PM

Darker plot has the blocks but which fuel is confusing. I believe Shiv posted recently that he wasn't having much luck pairing the power blocks with E85 which was disappointing since that's what I run at the track and I'd love to get more between 5500 and 6500. That bump in the graph would really help the car pull at corner exit.

Fred E · 06-08-2014, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjoyminutemaid

I think you got that backward, based on Mike's post...

Nope, I'm 100% sure I got it right.

Xero-Limit · 06-08-2014, 04:54 AM

Color selection could've been better here! Darker is e85. This is a slightly lower reading Dynojet than normal.

xwd · 06-08-2014, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Darker plot has the blocks but which fuel is confusing. I believe Shiv posted recently that he wasn't having much luck pairing the power blocks with E85 which was disappointing since that's what I run at the track and I'd love to get more between 5500 and 6500. That bump in the graph would really help the car pull at corner exit.

I don't think Shiv ever actually posted a dyno plot. He said the car made more power between 5-6500RPM like other cars with the BPB but it dropped off quite a bit above 6500 so overall the car made less HP.

Victor Draken · 06-08-2014, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto-mike

Color selection could've been better here! Darker is e85. This is a slightly lower reading Dynojet than normal.

Are you sure?
The darker One looks like its the One with bpb.

Fred E · 06-08-2014, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Draken

Are you sure?
The darker One looks like its the One with bpb.

Yes, the one with the Crawford power blocks is the one on E85, which is the darker plot.

06-06-2014, 08:59 PM	#1
Xero-Limit Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: JDL Turbo FRS, 335SC BRZ (ret) Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 932 Thanks: 368 Thanked 1,547 Times in 525 Posts Mentioned: 380 Post(s) Tagged: 6 Thread(s)	Moto East Crawford Power Blocks Testing & Dyno! We recently had a batch of folks come through on the dyno, and it just so happened that we had a car on race gas with a near identical setup to one we just tuned on e85. Only difference? Cat in the exhaust, and power blocks. E85 and 100 octane + will both hit peak torque with no knock. The cat explains a couple HP at the top end, but the the power blocks and dyno really tell the story here. One is a P&L header (catted), the other is a p&l copy (we won't mention who). But for our purposes they are exactly the same. Both cars spent several hours on the dyno last year, so for this reason you see the "humps" due to the hyper optimized VE. The more time we spend on the dyno the "rougher" the plot looks with more humps, simply because we can search through all the nooks and crannies for any HP to be had in the spots where VE is just really high. This is normal for an EL header. So on with the show....see if you can spot the power blocks plot. So what you can see here is that the power band is shifted. Our VE humps are shifted as well, and the top end we are fortunately able to recover any HP lost by altering cam phasing and increasing the timing. Verdict? Area under the curve is definitely improved. No doubt you will feel these in the 5500-6500 range bit time. Last edited by Xero-Limit; 06-06-2014 at 10:16 PM.

06-07-2014, 06:59 PM	#5
xwd Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 2013 DGM Subaru BRZ (Subie #9) Location: ATL, US Posts: 2,667 Thanks: 123 Thanked 860 Times in 552 Posts Mentioned: 32 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	From Mike's description, the darker plot is E85, the lighter plot is 100. Last edited by xwd; 06-08-2014 at 09:45 AM.

06-07-2014, 11:28 PM	#9
Deep Six Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: 2013 FRS / 2013 427 Vert Location: Orlando Posts: 611 Thanks: 212 Thanked 328 Times in 197 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Darker plot has the blocks but which fuel is confusing. I believe Shiv posted recently that he wasn't having much luck pairing the power blocks with E85 which was disappointing since that's what I run at the track and I'd love to get more between 5500 and 6500. That bump in the graph would really help the car pull at corner exit. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 2013 FR-S Asphalt BC Coils/Rev Works UEL header/HKS Front Pipe/Racing Brake BBK/Shorai LW Battery/ACT 6 Puck Clutch/FBM Radiator & Oil Pan/JR Oil Cooler/Jackson Racing High Boost C30/Rev Works Built Motor 2016 Audi TTS APR Tuned

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06-06-2014, 09:30 PM	#2
D K Stig's dark passenger Join Date: Dec 2013 Drives: FR-S Location: I work abroad Posts: 724 Thanks: 60 Thanked 316 Times in 186 Posts Mentioned: 20 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Are thse YOUR power blocks or Crawford? D

06-07-2014, 06:50 PM	#4
uspspro Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Drives: DGM BRZ, MR-S 3.5L V6 swap (sold) Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 602 Thanks: 28 Thanked 188 Times in 121 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	So these ~190 whp numbers were on a dynojet with E85 (or 100 octane)? Just confirming. Dynojets are usually pretty consistent, I was thinking ~10-15 more whp...

06-07-2014, 08:11 PM	#6
fooddude Banned Join Date: Dec 2013 Drives: 04 Toyota Tacoma Prerunner Reg Cab Location: LA > SF > NYC > OC Posts: 943 Thanks: 556 Thanked 268 Times in 200 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Confusing comparison..I give up reading lol

06-07-2014, 09:34 PM	#7
Fred E Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Drives: WRB BRZ Location: New Jersey Posts: 261 Thanks: 83 Thanked 150 Times in 96 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Darker plot = E85, Crawford power blocks, catted header. Lighter plot = Race gas, no Crawford power blocks, catless header.

06-08-2014, 04:54 AM	#11
Xero-Limit Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: JDL Turbo FRS, 335SC BRZ (ret) Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 932 Thanks: 368 Thanked 1,547 Times in 525 Posts Mentioned: 380 Post(s) Tagged: 6 Thread(s)	Color selection could've been better here! Darker is e85. This is a slightly lower reading Dynojet than normal.

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