Primacy HP tires in "winter-lite"??

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

I gotta ask, why do people go on internet forums to weigh their own tolerance for risk?

It's like asking on a forum for financial advice from absolute strangers. Quick, gimme all your money, I'll know what to do with it.

Risk management is a conversation that is interesting to me. Some people take risks, because they are young, ignorant, or just plain do not care.


I was all three a decade ago... Driving around in the snow on my Nitto 555's. Terrible idea, though I drove all winter with no problems.


So, in my mind then, I was not taking any risks. "tires seem fine to me"


Now, I know that I did not encounter any emergency situations where I needed the grip proper tires would have offered me. I was TOTALLY lucky!



And now...
I have an AWD truck with M/S tires to drive when it's cold... (studs too if it really snows!)

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by motrek

Okay, so the topic of summer tires in winter has been discussed to death... or has it?

The problem is that "winter" clearly means different things to different people. Driving on summer tires in winter in Alaska? I'll believe that's unacceptable. Driving on summer tires in winter in Mexico? You might be okay.

I just bought a new Subaru BRZ over the weekend and it came with the stock Michelin Primacy HP tires obviously. It occurs to me that these are sold as "summer touring" tires and now I'm wondering if I need to change them out for different tires for the upcoming [relatively] colder weather in Seattle.

The temperature in Seattle rarely goes below freezing. I read somewhere that it happened on 15 days last year, presumably in the middle of the night when I wouldn't be driving. For the vast majority of the time during the winter, I expect the temperature to be above 40 degrees.

We get minimal snow and ice. I think I can count the number of days there was snow or ice on the ground last year on one hand. I'm fine staying home or Ubering around on those days.

Thanks for any input!

I'm assuming it's pretty wet in seattle during winter? If so you might want to consider good all seasons or better summers.

The michelins in the rain and ~38 degrees have been very slick for me the past week, I'm mounting my winters today.

In the dry upper 30s/40s the tires aren't bad.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

I gotta ask, why do people go on internet forums to weigh their own tolerance for risk?

It's like asking on a forum for financial advice from absolute strangers. Quick, gimme all your money, I'll know what to do with it.

Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones

Although strangers, we collectively have hundreds of years driving these cars in all different weather.

Exactly. Asking a forum is not too different from asking friends, family, neighbors. It's just advice. Except that people here actually drive the same exact car.


Of course you should still do more research. But there's a reason why reviews on Yelp, Google, Tirerack, and Amazon exist. Because experience with the same product or service, matters.

[daiheadjai]

My first fall with the BRZ (I think it was like mid-late October or November), I drove through some relatively wet weather (not even snow and ice) on the Primacys.

My first few passes through some puddles on the highway I take to work were enough to convince me the BRZ needed proper winter tires.
Maybe it was the communicative steering and chassis, or maybe the Primacys just don't handle standing water/puddles well (I definitely felt loss of grip through the wheel), but I never felt that squirrely behaviour from the car in the rest of the 3 years I had it (including 3 full winters that saw significant travel through snow and ice).

So I would definitely suggest getting proper winter tires.

[Bonburner]

I've had the rear end slide out at 3 mph doing a U turn in california rain, ~60-65°F I think.
So glad I got rid of those primacy HP tires, I wouldn't trust them in the snow.

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Exactly. Asking a forum is not too different from asking friends, family, neighbors. It's just advice. Except that people here actually drive the same exact car.


Of course you should still do more research. But there's a reason why reviews on Yelp, Google, Tirerack, and Amazon exist. Because experience with the same product or service, matters.

Driving habits, and geographic location make that exact same car act completely different.

If you give $100, to two different people, they will use it differently.

But whatever, I know I'd keep a set of winters to minimize my chance of being on the receiving end of an accident.

[OwlDance]

Summer tires for anything beyond what could be considered "autumn" weather is when you should seriously consider alternatives. Likewise I would not even consider All Seasons for NY if the roads weren't plowed in the wee morning hours and pre-salted against literally any possible snowfall.

However, Seattle sounds much milder than NY (The pacific acts a heat sink in the summer and subsequently carries some of those ocean temperatures into the winter and reduces the potential for extreme weather and very cold days) so I think All Seasons would be fine for what you're dealing with, assuming little to no ice formation and limited snowfall. Winters would make for good insurance against any bad weather however.

As others have said, while the tire might be functional in the cold weather (ignoring snow/ice for the time being), its properties/compounds (unlike all seasons and winters) are what make it a risk and a gamble.

[Atmo]

Tire Rack removes much of the guesswork with objective testing, expert opinions and millions of miles of user reviews.

https://tinyurl.com/y9a9pbrx

And if you have to choose only one tire type, the unicorn Ultra High Performance All-Season category comes close.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...jsp?type=UHPAS

IMO, unless you track your car you'll notice little difference on-road in the warmer months between UHP All Seasons and Extreme Performance Summer tires except the AS will generally ride better, be quieter, have better wet grip, last longer and have a warranty.

America's Tire stores carry almost all brands and often have discounts plus they'll give you some cash credit for your takeoffs.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Tire Rack removes much of the guesswork with objective testing, expert opinions and millions of miles of user reviews.

https://tinyurl.com/y9a9pbrx

And if you have to choose only one tire type, the unicorn Ultra High Performance All-Season category comes close.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...jsp?type=UHPAS

IMO, unless you track your car you'll notice little difference on-road in the warmer months between UHP All Seasons and Extreme Performance Summer tires except the AS will generally ride better, be quieter, have better wet grip, last longer and have a warranty.

America's Tire stores carry almost all brands and often have discounts plus they'll give you some cash credit for your takeoffs.

I have to second the All Season Ultra High Performance Tire choice. I have used them on my Integra for many years in Philadelphia winters and they did great on ice and snow. I never worried much and rarely ever lost traction in the them, using mostly Sumitomo and Kumho. It would annoy me, actually, when I would try to purposely skid to have a little fun in the snow and the darn tires just wouldn’t loose their grip. I’m sure the front wheel drive helped. Their tire life wouldn’t last much beyond 25 or 30 k miles, but they were relatively cheap to replace.

I got my 86 last year and it was my first winter with summer tires. After reading on this forum about the stock Primacy’s poor winter abilities, I resolved to leave it parked in the driveway for much of the season and drove my old ‘teg as my winter beater. The rare occasion I took my 86 out to get her some excercise I could tell I was sliding way more than usual. A single unavoidable trip home from the shop in the snow was enough for me! I felt like I was on skates! Luckily I was mostly alone on the road.

When my summer tires wear out I plan on giving the All Season UHP route to see if they will work for me. If I no longer have an alternate vehicle and I find that the rear wheel nature of the car makes even all seasons an adventure, I may get another set of rims for a seasonal swap, but I’m hoping I won’t have to cause that sounds like a pain in the butt.

Myriad

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

Driving habits, and geographic location make that exact same car act completely different.

If you give $100, to two different people, they will use it differently.

But whatever, I know I'd keep a set of winters to minimize my chance of being on the receiving end of an accident.

Right. So to your point about geographic location, you feel you need winter tires in Canada. He lives in Seattle where he said it rarely gets below freezing.

Some people can't afford to keep 2 sets of tires all year, especially in a non-snowy/icy area.

[alphasaur]

If you think uhp all seasons are comparable to summer specific or winter specific tires you don't drive hard enough.

Originally Posted by Atmo

IMO, unless you track your car you'll notice little difference on-road in the warmer months between UHP All Seasons and Extreme Performance Summer tires except the AS will generally ride better, be quieter, have better wet grip, last longer and have a warranty.

This is not accurate, from a source that you posted (tirerack) "Wet performance was yet another demonstration of a high level of ability for all four tires. While still a noticeable step behind the best Max Performance Summer tires"

[kch]

Originally Posted by motrek

Okay, so the topic of summer tires in winter has been discussed to death... or has it?

The problem is that "winter" clearly means different things to different people. Driving on summer tires in winter in Alaska? I'll believe that's unacceptable. Driving on summer tires in winter in Mexico? You might be okay.

I just bought a new Subaru BRZ over the weekend and it came with the stock Michelin Primacy HP tires obviously. It occurs to me that these are sold as "summer touring" tires and now I'm wondering if I need to change them out for different tires for the upcoming [relatively] colder weather in Seattle.

The temperature in Seattle rarely goes below freezing. I read somewhere that it happened on 15 days last year, presumably in the middle of the night when I wouldn't be driving. For the vast majority of the time during the winter, I expect the temperature to be above 40 degrees.

We get minimal snow and ice. I think I can count the number of days there was snow or ice on the ground last year on one hand. I'm fine staying home or Ubering around on those days.

Thanks for any input!

Lots of people giving good advice for winter safety generally, but I can give Seattle-specific input.

I moved to Seattle from Houston last year. The car was sitting on very worn 200tw extreme summers. I survived last winter just fine, although I had some problems on icy hills in Queen Anne. Heck, I even went up to Steven's Pass on my summers. (I got stuck in the parking lot, though...).

Anyway. I survived, but it was a terrible idea. I should've swapped to better tires. I'm using AS3s now--we'll see how they work out. I took them up to Steven's Pass in February and I didn't get stuck, so that's an improvement.

That being said, there's a HUGE difference between brand-new primacy HPs and my super-worn Z2 Star Specs. You might be fine. But I would suggest you do one of three things:

1) Buy a spare set of stock wheels and put some winter tires on them; or
2) Switch to some AS3s (and still be careful, as they're not a winter tire) and sell the like-new Primacies. Get a pretty set of wheels over the winter and throw some summer tires on them.
3) (my choice) Just keep the Primacies for now and send it. Take the bus when it's icy.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by alphasaur

If you think uhp all seasons are comparable to summer specific or winter specific tires you don't drive hard enough.

This very well may be true. I’m no track star or auto-xer. They were also used on a different car and drive train. But I’ll give em a try one day to see if they work on the 86. If not, I’ll winter tire her up. Meanwhile, I have luxury of a second car where they do work pretty well for me.

Myriad

[Spuds]

My experience with the Primacies:

I did 2 Maryland (20-40F) winters on them, the second I had another car to drive most days. First winter, my road wasn't plowed for like 3 days after a snowstorm and I couldn't get out of the parking lot. Second winter I got caught in a surprise light snow flurry and had to park the car and walk the last mile home. The tires were a bit sketchy even when dry. I also did not have a garage at the time if that matters.

Tldr: I don't recommend it especially as your only car anywhere around freezing. 40F or higher, I'd say depends on how you drive.