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Old 04-25-2012, 01:48 PM   #15
Capt Canuck
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Originally Posted by Deslock View Post




Seriously, I have nothing against the Cobalt... it's another one of those great bang for your buck cars. But if you don't mind FWD, there's no reason to be interested in the FT86 (and thus no reason to be on this forum).
Nonsense. Choosing between FWD and RWD is not a mutually exclusive exercise.

I guess I should be used to it by now, but it never ceases to amaze me when people post something like that. A good car is a good car regardless of which wheels the power is delivered to.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SuqMadiq View Post
I understand turbos don't feel as pure as a naturally aspirated engine, but I would sure as hell prefer the engine the later Cobalt SS's had. Turbo 4cyl with about 260hp/260tq and an optional GM mod to bump it up to 300hp/300tq.

This car has a lot going for it, but it seriously lacks balls.
280HP/320TQ You're right. The engine in the car is great. Just on the wrong platform. The Solstice GXP and Sky Redline are too small, but at least have the right platform.

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Originally Posted by switchlanez View Post
Then you should get a Cobalt SS.

Toyota/Subaru intended for power to be added by the owner later. They had rather focused on developing a low CoG and lightweight platform - things the owner can't as easily add later/would cost waaay more. Instead the owner starts on a launching pad with much greater potential. They give us a spectacular skeleton with enough meat; we just add some muscle. Light to moderate power upgrades can bring it on par with more expensive sports cars for less cost.

I'd rather have it with sufficient power/lower cost with a ridiculous platform than more factory power with a Cobalt SS platform. If we could have the awesome platform with high power all from the factory, it would be in the bleak $30k+ sports car segment. Less attainable and proven to lead to extinction (S2K then RX-8). Who wants Toyota to make it a 3-peat? So it's either more power or more attainable. Toyota chose the lesser of the two evils.
The Cobalt SS/TC platform is extremely nice. However, you get what you pay for. The interior is somewhat lacking. Furthermore, for me, it's seems as if I've acquired a Friday version of the vehicle. Mine has had nothing but quality control issues. In fact, last summer, I had a horrible turbo issue for two months. Turned out that MAP sensors weren't wired correctly when they installed the GM Stage 1 turbo upgrade. The car has plenty of power, but without an LSD (really GM? Optional LSD in a high powered FWD vehicle??), torque steer ruins the ride, unless you're good at controlling the power under pressure.

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^^^You talk about the Cobalt SS like it's some terrible platform for performance driving..

You do realize the cobalt SS managed to hold the record for fastest production FWD car around the nurburgring

It lapped the nurburgring faster than the Boxster S (something this car won't come close to doing.

It lapped Leguna seca faster than the Evolution 9..(Something this car won't come close to doing)

It lapped VIR faster than a GR WRX STi, 335i M Sport, Audi S5 and Gen Coupe 3.8...

The Cobalt SS was a highly accomplished and highly capable car, drivetrain and platform..To deny it THAT is just a huge glaring "I don't know a damn thing about it other than people consider it cheap and it used to be a cavalier"

Seriously sir, don't spout off about cars you really have no idea about other than "herp derp it's cheap" because the Cobalt SS, much like the neon SRT4 were both cars that were cheaper than this "thing" and offered a hell of a lot more to the "performance enthusiast" crowd than any scion ever released.

The car was arguably ugly...arguably "cheap" in interior quality.. and everyone owned a cobalt....But it was fast, it produced power, it's engine and gearbox were sound and capable...and it's chassis was equally able..the same goes for the Saturn Ion Redline...and even MORE SO once it became a Turbocharged car instead of supercharged.
Couldn't have agreed with you more on the "cheap" interior quality. Aside from that, it's definitely a solid vehicle.

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Originally Posted by sprintertrueno86 View Post


im gettin a cobalt ss then
:p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deslock View Post
From the Car and Driver BRZ review:




Seriously, I have nothing against the Cobalt... it's another one of those great bang for your buck cars. But if you don't mind FWD, there's no reason to be interested in the FT86 (and thus no reason to be on this forum).
It is a great bang for your buck, but you get what you pay for. And it's FWD.

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Originally Posted by brewksy View Post
I own a redline. It served me very well and has a lot of potential!

It also has a terrible interior, shoddy build quality, and the worst steering feel I've ever felt in a vehicle. There's no doubt its fast - with the stage 2 upgrade from GM it is incredibly quick and has an immediate power response due to the supercharger. But it's also fat - and feels like it no matter how much power you add to it.

So it beat some cars around a track? Big deal. You will not enjoy driving it as much as a lighter (slower) car.
At least you don't have to worry about torque steer with the FR-S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ichitaka05 View Post
Like Switch stated. Go buy Cobalt SS. Cobalt SS is a great car, it's damn fast for sure. I've driven 600hp GT-R (R32) to 90hp Cappuccino. I can tell you one thing, FR-S got some balls. It'll give you bigger balls to master this car than any other current car in this price range... hell even in $60k price range it still won't have bigger balls than this car.

Again, if you want high up hp with turbo, go for it.
Cobalt SS is a great car if you can find one that has gone through proper quality control and hasn't been beaten on.

Just FYI, I bought my 2010 Cobalt SS brand new. It's been great, but the overall quality of the vehicle and the people who work at the service department is what kills it for me. I've only owned it for 2 years and and I'm ready to get rid of it. The performance is great, and the car, for the most part, is awesome. I guess I just had bad luck. I can't wait to get rid of it though for an FR-S.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Eurasianman View Post
Cobalt SS is a great car if you can find one that has gone through proper quality control and hasn't been beaten on.

Just FYI, I bought my 2010 Cobalt SS brand new. It's been great, but the overall quality of the vehicle and the people who work at the service department is what kills it for me. I've only owned it for 2 years and and I'm ready to get rid of it. The performance is great, and the car, for the most part, is awesome. I guess I just had bad luck. I can't wait to get rid of it though for an FR-S.
Well, hope you have a chance to drive FRS and enjoy it
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:12 AM   #18
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Well, hope you have a chance to drive FRS and enjoy it
Oh, I plan on it! I'm just afraid that if I test drive one, I won't want to leave the dealership afterwards without one.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:38 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Canuck View Post
Nonsense. Choosing between FWD and RWD is not a mutually exclusive exercise.

I guess I should be used to it by now, but it never ceases to amaze me when people post something like that. A good car is a good car regardless of which wheels the power is delivered to.
It could also be a personal preference thing.

That's how it is for me. I've driven FWD cars, and I really don't enjoy the dynamics. So for me, FWD is an immediate deal breaker. I'm sure the Cobalt SS, Mini, and Focus ST are great cars to drive. And I'm sure I might even enjoy a lap or two in them. Hell, we have a base model Sonic here at work for deliveries and it's an entertaining little thing that feels like it could pivot on the inside front tire. But I don't want to drive a FWD car every day.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:52 AM   #20
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Trust me, it does get old driving a FWD car. Especially when you're trying to merge into traffic in the morning and you floor it and the wheel starts going left and right (torque steer). I'm still working on driving under pressure, but some times, it's just too early for me.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:28 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Draco-REX View Post
It could also be a personal preference thing.

That's how it is for me. I've driven FWD cars, and I really don't enjoy the dynamics. So for me, FWD is an immediate deal breaker. I'm sure the Cobalt SS, Mini, and Focus ST are great cars to drive. And I'm sure I might even enjoy a lap or two in them. Hell, we have a base model Sonic here at work for deliveries and it's an entertaining little thing that feels like it could pivot on the inside front tire. But I don't want to drive a FWD car every day.
Absolutely. People with an interest in such things will have a personal preference for their driven wheels.

But when someone says - But if you don't mind FWD, there's no reason to be interested in the FT86 (and thus no reason to be on this forum).

They are not talking about personal preference. They are talking nonsense :-)
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:31 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Eurasianman View Post
Oh, I plan on it! I'm just afraid that if I test drive one, I won't want to leave the dealership afterwards without one.
I was in same boat last week. After test driving FR-S in the skidpad, autox, & track, I didn't want to get out of the car. Me & Moto-san was saying, "Forget going back to hotel, let's go for some trip! We'll comeback w 10k on the odo lol"
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:57 PM   #23
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First I've read that they're planning to make the car more practical:

"Scion spokesman Craig Taguchi says an all-season tire will arrive at a later date."
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Capt Canuck View Post
Nonsense. Choosing between FWD and RWD is not a mutually exclusive exercise.

I guess I should be used to it by now, but it never ceases to amaze me when people post something like that.
If I found FWD dynamics satisfying, then instead of paying extra for a lightweight RWD car, I'd look at one of the many FWD performance cars that are cheaper than the FRS (and in some case are also faster, more efficient, more practical, or offer better amenities):
  • $21.5k Veloster turbo (rumored)
  • $22.0k Abarth
  • $22.3k Civic Si
  • $23.8k Mini Cooper S
  • $24.0k GTI
  • $24.0k Mazdaspeed3
Likewise, if I found heavier RWD dynamics satisfying, then I'd look at "bang for your buck" RWD cars like:
  • $22.2k Mustang V6
  • $24.2k Genesis Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Canuck View Post
A good car is a good car regardless of which wheels the power is delivered to.
I never claimed otherwise, and I understand why some don't mind FWD or heavier RWD cars. I personally prefer both RWD and "momentum car" dynamics, and I'm willing to pay extra and drive a slower, less practical car to get them.

Not saying you're doing this, but I don't understand why some users hang out at a forum for a lightweight RWD car and then bench race it against FWD cars or heavier RWD cars. Every car is a compromise.

Last edited by Deslock; 04-26-2012 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:50 PM   #25
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I have loads of fun in my auto 08 Fit. Maybe I have some different perspective. When I hear another 100 hp at the cost of a curb weight equivalent to having my fat friend in the Fit with me, I get excited.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switchlanez View Post
If we could have the awesome platform with high power all from the factory, it would be in the bleak $30k+ sports car segment. Less attainable and proven to lead to extinction (S2K then RX-8). Who wants Toyota to make it a 3-peat? So it's either more power or more attainable. Toyota chose the lesser of the two evils.
If only automakers were somehow able to make the same car, but in different trims/models. Like say, make one as an entry level car, and make a hotter but more expensive model as well. This way you cater to both audiences. I don't know why automakers didn't come up with this idea, ever.

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It'll give you bigger balls to master this car than any other current car in this price range... hell even in $60k price range it still won't have bigger balls than this car.

Again, if you want high up hp with turbo, go for it.
Track wise, Mustang Boss if you want to go into that price range. It takes "more balls" to drive a "heavier car" flatout which has more power and torque available at all times. The Boss outhandles this car. Even a GT will fit this catagory of "more balls".

At 60k, you can get a GT500. A mustang that somehow does 200+MPH. That's far more balls to drive that too, up to 200mph or on a closed track as I'm sure the fine line of overpowering turns is easy enough as well, and at damn near any speed.

And, driving a Prius on a back road, pushing it's limits I can say first-hand takes "balls" because it handles like trash and isn't meant to, thus it's scary.

People really need to just "be happy" with what it is. Don't try comparing it to other cars that out class it. Don't get into "price segment wars" neither, as soon as you breach that $30k mark, this car gets trounced on the track "numbers wise".

"Fun" is something that's up to someone's own perspective, and no one can say something's fun definitively until they experience it themselves. Just like I say this car is probably fun to drive, most likely, until I get to drive it "soon" now. Just be happy with your decision from your money. If someone doesn't like something, no need to get defensive. There's valid criticisms out there, and if people point something out WITH validity and thought behind it, then so be it. Different strokes and all that.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JohnnyR View Post
If only automakers were somehow able to make the same car, but in different trims/models. Like say, make one as an entry level car, and make a hotter but more expensive model as well. This way you cater to both audiences. I don't know why automakers didn't come up with this idea, ever.
I thought they did.
Scion - Entry Level
Toyota - Mainstream
Lexus - High End

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