max "potential" NA power.

[diss7]

Originally Posted by archer

diss7, screw off. dont like my thread, no worrie's, dont have to be part of it lol. im not complaining about the price of a good throttle body, im stating that as time goes on and more and more parts are out the price will go down on some part's. yes, to build a engine correct it take's a crazy amount of money, so im not complaing about the price lol.

You didn't state that at all, guy.

Fact is if you were serious, you would have already picked up the phone and talked to companies like I have. Kelford can do a cam, but there are design issues. They can do a set straight away if you want to pay, budget $4k.

Toda Racing have internals coming out, both for NA and turbo, both standard displacement and turbo.

My point is that you're wanting information on NA internals, but bauking at the cost of a throttle body. Then you say you want to wait until parts are cheaper.

So you have two optionsx pay the premium now, be one of the first, and share the information. Or wait until others do it and share the info.

You will be waitnf several years for parts to get cheaper. If you think the throttle bodies are too expensive, make a cheaper one and sell it.

Yes I think you're all talk. I base the judgement almost solely on your excessive usage of lol.

[archer]

Originally Posted by diss7

You didn't state that at all, guy.

Fact is if you were serious, you would have already picked up the phone and talked to companies like I have. Kelford can do a cam, but there are design issues. They can do a set straight away if you want to pay, budget $4k.

Toda Racing have internals coming out, both for NA and turbo, both standard displacement and turbo.

My point is that you're wanting information on NA internals, but bauking at the cost of a throttle body. Then you say you want to wait until parts are cheaper.

So you have two optionsx pay the premium now, be one of the first, and share the information. Or wait until others do it and share the info.

You will be waitnf several years for parts to get cheaper. If you think the throttle bodies are too expensive, make a cheaper one and sell it.

Yes I think you're all talk. I base the judgement almost solely on your excessive usage of lol.

you might think im all talk because of i use lol alot. i use lol alot because for the most part, im a happy calm easy going person. i use lol, so fucking what. i never once said IM going to be buying all these parts. i never said im not going to ether. my whole fucking point of this thread was simply to see what other peoples thoughts are on the potential of this engine.

before i created this thread i even asked a establisted member if this thread would be ok because i couldnt find a thread close to what i was interested in and he said ya go for it.

im not in aw of the price of the throttle body, my statement about the throttle body was because in reality, engine don't reach there peak early on in there life for two reason's. firstly because it takes time to learn it and do the required R@D. secondly most people wait a year or two untill parts are cheaper because wy spend $1200 on one part and have to wait six months to wait for another part to come on the market and spend another $600 on that part. where as if you just wait a year you can get new parts that are better quality then those for a cheaper price. reality is people tend to wait to build newer cars.

i never said that I am gunna be the one doing it, im simply interested. i might perhaps, as of right now i don't know. the thread title is not "i want to fully build my engine what do you recommend" its just showing curiosity in what fellow member's here think this engine can do.

you think im all talk? i think your a pretentious elitist. im sorry i havent picked up the phone and call'd people like YOU have. that makes me a lesser being and im sorry and i bow in aw to you, your highness.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Wow that escalated quickly

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[archer]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Wow that escalated quickly

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

its just stupid. you dont like a thread, dont read anymore thats post'd in it. no point in bugging the person who started it lol.

[Tgionet]

For reference the crate 2.3l duratec from Cosworth puts out 280 brake

[Dipstik-sportech]

My buddy paid 13,000$ to make 280whp with a b18 stroked to a 2.045l on race gas.

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[1086]

I don't know if the Phantom super charger is considered FI or not but with the OFT + Phantom S/C + E85 the car yields gains in the 220's whp

All together, you are probably spending around $2,000 for the Phantom S/C + OFT

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2724

Even on 91 the car is getting low 200's

[StormTrooper]

The best I've seen is 197whp on 92 Oct.

Electric sc is still FI although a pretty weak version.

E85/ race gas seems to allow for another 10-15 HP.


Whitout breaking most peoples banks I imagine 215 or so will be the limit of pump gas NA.
TB intake cams full tuned exhaust.

[utekineir]

oh shit, theres someone in aw here

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by archer

...........before i created this thread i even asked a establisted member if this thread would be ok because i couldnt find a thread close to what i was interested in and he said ya go for it......
.

Hi Folks ......

Yep, that "established member" would be me ....

I realize that when new folks make a thread start they run the chance of drawing comments .... like "this has been discussed up-teen times before" or "do a search".

However, I felt that @archer had a sincere question that was worthy of updated discussion, so I suggested he post a thread start.

Let's take a moment to review his OP.


“So iv been searching around online for quite a while before joining theforum and from what iv gather the peak HP for a NA is around the 200 mark withbolt on's and a tune. I have seen some place's where people have even directlysaid the peak power is 200 ish with bolt on's and a tune. But i'm curious, oncewe have more part's on the market such as camshaft's, piston's, rod's, valve's,valve spring's, lifter's, throttle body's and so on. what do you think thisengine is capable of. I understand there's no way of knowing anything until theparts are actually here, just curious about idea's on max power once there'smore then just bolt on part's. Also, iunderstand that the stock throttle body and camshaft are great to begin withbut somewhere down the road better one's will be out there”

I hi-lited what I consider his question ..... or subject for comment/speculation.

I hope we don't start stifling newbies from starting threads, because they fear they will be criticized ....

OK - humfrz off his ....

[archer]

Originally Posted by utekineir

oh shit, theres someone in aw here

lol

[archer]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Hi Folks ......

Yep, that "established member" would be me ....

I realize that when new folks make a thread start they run the chance of drawing comments .... like "this has been discussed up-teen times before" or "do a search".

However, I felt that @archer had a sincere question that was worthy of updated discussion, so I suggested he post a thread start.

Let's take a moment to review his OP.


“So iv been searching around online for quite a while before joining theforum and from what iv gather the peak HP for a NA is around the 200 mark withbolt on's and a tune. I have seen some place's where people have even directlysaid the peak power is 200 ish with bolt on's and a tune. But i'm curious, oncewe have more part's on the market such as camshaft's, piston's, rod's, valve's,valve spring's, lifter's, throttle body's and so on. what do you think thisengine is capable of. I understand there's no way of knowing anything until theparts are actually here, just curious about idea's on max power once there'smore then just bolt on part's. Also, iunderstand that the stock throttle body and camshaft are great to begin withbut somewhere down the road better one's will be out there”

I hi-lited what I consider his question ..... or subject for comment/speculation.

I hope we don't start stifling newbies from starting threads, because they fear they will be criticized ....

OK - humfrz off his ....

[InvalidJohnny5]

I honestly don't think this engine was built to be an NA engine, it just reacts too well to any properly installed/tuned FI system. I mean it is a Subaru engine after all. How many fast 2.0 NA boxers do you see with high HP? Porsche have high NA hp due to their displacement and obvious price. It's a pipe dream to build an NA FA20 with 240rwhp on pump gas. FI systems can produce it easy on 91oct, you might as well have bought a Cayman at that point :p.

[diss7]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh earlier, sorry. We certainly want to seen as welcoming to new people. No hard feelings.

Too many people are jumping into FI because there are some easy options there, and that's cool. I was FI and have gone back to NA.

It's slowler on the street. But I enjoy it more at the track.