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Old 12-21-2012, 12:22 AM   #15
KaliKev
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Hell, we even have electric sports cars now that are super quick.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Cjm005 View Post
With increasing efficiency requirements and the advent of hybrid technology I believe it is the golden age for car enthusiasts. Regs are getting stricter, gas more expensive... You have to think some day the type of cars we all enjoy will be kaput.
The new fuel regulations are what worry me about the future of cars in general. I would really hate to have another era of post 1973 cars that were neutered by fuel restrictions, but I can see that happening in 10 years from now.

Automakers have made amazing strides in fuel efficiency and I hope the trend continues. 200 hp FR-S/BRZ 34 mpg, 300+ hp Mustang 31 mpg, 400+ Camaro/Mustang/Corvette 26 mpg. 500+ hp GT500/GT-R/Viper 15+ mpg.

Never dreamed of such fuel efficiency with that horsepower back in the early 90s.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:22 PM   #17
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this is most definitely not the golden age to own any kind of car, let alone sports cars.
High insurance costs
High fuel costs
Safety above function
Social stigma (ie, unless you have a race car you should not race your car)
More beurocratic bullshit
Higher speeds due to tire technology (good for real racers, bad for econoboxes not meant to run on A6's or something)
Shitty design
Higher involvement of electronics

No, every year is becoming worse and worse for automotive enthusiasts, soon there won't be any point to it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:02 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 7thgear View Post
this is most definitely not the golden age to own any kind of car, let alone sports cars.
High insurance costs
High fuel costs
Safety above function
Social stigma (ie, unless you have a race car you should not race your car)
More beurocratic bullshit
Higher speeds due to tire technology (good for real racers, bad for econoboxes not meant to run on A6's or something)
Shitty design
Higher involvement of electronics

No, every year is becoming worse and worse for automotive enthusiasts, soon there won't be any point to it.
Ahh my favourite cynic chimes in finally We have to get together for a bottle of Stoli and discuss it one day.

The high costs are all relative to income. Not so sure whether that is better/worse compared to previous eras.

Safety above function....AMEN! I'm not sure about anyone else, but the safety of my family is WAY more important than anything that could compromise it.

I think for luxury and technology, cars now are better than ever before, however it's not the golden era.

The crowd here is too young to consider this for the most part, but I'd say the 50's. The 57' Chev Belair and Impala were not only iconic then and now, but also that was probably the last era of world leading quality for American cars. My dad used to buy and trade his car every 2 years back then and his depreciation was maybe $200-$250 for Chevs and Pontiacs. Relative to incomes this was probably the most affordable period for quality product.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by wbradley View Post
Ahh my favourite cynic chimes in finally We have to get together for a bottle of Stoli and discuss it one day.

The high costs are all relative to income. Not so sure whether that is better/worse compared to previous eras.

Safety above function....AMEN! I'm not sure about anyone else, but the safety of my family is WAY more important than anything that could compromise it.

I think for luxury and technology, cars now are better than ever before, however it's not the golden era.

The crowd here is too young to consider this for the most part, but I'd say the 50's. The 57' Chev Belair and Impala were not only iconic then and now, but also that was probably the last era of world leading quality for American cars. My dad used to buy and trade his car every 2 years back then and his depreciation was maybe $200-$250 for Chevs and Pontiacs. Relative to incomes this was probably the most affordable period for quality product.
American cars were far more iconic in that era. The styling from the early 1930's through the mid 1970's was amazing. Cars followed a similar trend in terms of design, but were each distinctive. Now most cars look the same and if you swapped badges most people couldn't tell the difference.

This is not a golden age in terms of car design. I see this era similar to the 1980's. An era where everything was essentially the same except for minor design nuances.

I would definitely agree that new car prices, even used car prices, are getting out of hand. I remember looking at a new 2007 Mustang GT for just over $23,000. A new 2013 Mustang GT is now $31,000. But then again the new one has over 100+ hp and a host of new tech. The area that bothers me the most is price of entry level cars. It doesn't seem that long ago, but there was a time in 2000 when you could get a new Civic or Corolla for around $12,000. Now you can't really touch those cars for under $17,000. That is a crazy increase in price.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:36 PM   #20
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American cars were far more iconic in that era. The styling from the early 1930's through the mid 1970's was amazing. Cars followed a similar trend in terms of design, but were each distinctive. Now most cars look the same and if you swapped badges most people couldn't tell the difference.

This is not a golden age in terms of car design. I see this era similar to the 1980's. An era where everything was essentially the same except for minor design nuances.

I would definitely agree that new car prices, even used car prices, are getting out of hand. I remember looking at a new 2007 Mustang GT for just over $23,000. A new 2013 Mustang GT is now $31,000. But then again the new one has over 100+ hp and a host of new tech. The area that bothers me the most is price of entry level cars. It doesn't seem that long ago, but there was a time in 2000 when you could get a new Civic or Corolla for around $12,000. Now you can't really touch those cars for under $17,000. That is a crazy increase in price.
MUCH worse in Canada. I'd say most cars are 10-15% more expensive even though our currencies are virtually equal at the moment. Add 13% sales tax on top in most provinces and you get the picture. Our average per capita income is still probably lower too.

The base price for a Mustang GT in Canada is $39,299. + frt, PDI, taxes etc. That's 26.8% more excluding taxes, incidentals.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:30 PM   #21
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Sure todays cars are faster and more economical.
But driver involvement in the skill of driving is almost gone.
Back in the 70s in my gtr toranas there were no buttons on the steering wheel , windows or mirrors and no sat nav . No esc , abs , reverse cam , auto park nanny systems.
If I got lost , lost control , reversed into something it would be a reflection on my ability.
Ppl now have electronics to blame for their own lack of ability.
We should be educating "drivers" more than building "safer" cars.
Well at least the new 86/frs/brz brings back some of the driver involvement/responsibility/fun of the 70s.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:39 PM   #22
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Sure todays cars are faster and more economical.
But driver involvement in the skill of driving is almost gone.
Back in the 70s in my gtr toranas there were no buttons on the steering wheel , windows or mirrors and no sat nav . No esc , abs , reverse cam , auto park nanny systems.
If I got lost , lost control , reversed into something it would be a reflection on my ability.
Ppl now have electronics to blame for their own lack of ability.
We should be educating "drivers" more than building "safer" cars.
Well at least the new 86/frs/brz brings back some of the driver involvement/responsibility/fun of the 70s.
Personally I find it fun to drive those older cars for a short period of time. I would never want to go back to any of the classic cars for a daily driver. It would be a nightmare to drive an old 1950's Chevy Truck for commuting or even a long road trip. Just imagine being stuck with AM radio, A/C that couldn't cool a mini-fridge, poor gas mileage, and old school handling. One great thing about older cars is the bench seat.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:51 PM   #23
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Ha ha not only was the A/C weak in 50's cars, but they had lousy nav too!
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JayNutter View Post
American cars were far more iconic in that era. The styling from the early 1930's through the mid 1970's was amazing. Cars followed a similar trend in terms of design, but were each distinctive. Now most cars look the same and if you swapped badges most people couldn't tell the difference.

This is not a golden age in terms of car design. I see this era similar to the 1980's. An era where everything was essentially the same except for minor design nuances.

I would definitely agree that new car prices, even used car prices, are getting out of hand. I remember looking at a new 2007 Mustang GT for just over $23,000. A new 2013 Mustang GT is now $31,000. But then again the new one has over 100+ hp and a host of new tech. The area that bothers me the most is price of entry level cars. It doesn't seem that long ago, but there was a time in 2000 when you could get a new Civic or Corolla for around $12,000. Now you can't really touch those cars for under $17,000. That is a crazy increase in price.
This is NOT the 1980's. The 80's were all about badge engineering. Hell, you could buy the same car from just about every GM lot back then. Ford wasn't much better. F-bodies were packing 5.7l v8's that produced less than 200hp. The ultra-restrictive catalytic converters of the times made it darn near impossible to make power. Cars were still running carbs... which was fine as long as you lived in the optimal environment for that carb's tuning (or had an aftermarket carb and a friend knowledgeable in the voodoo art that is carb tuning).

The Civic and Corolla are more expensive because they have both gone up-market, with Honda and Toyota bringing in lower models below them (Fit, Yaris). I'm also not so sure about your pricing. I paid ~$14.5k for a new Civic HX in 1998.

I think we are in a golden age of sorts. I hope it gets a bit more golden as other auto makers try to match the agility and lightness of the twins. Of course, it's all cyclical. So even if there are other automakers launching sub-3000 pound rwd coupes, their weight and equipment will quickly swell ass the marketeers break out their focus groups and start messing things up.

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Old 12-26-2012, 02:51 PM   #25
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Quite possibly this could be a start with the twins here now. Not considering current sports cars that were released before the twins because manufacturers just seemed to go their own route without much of a competitive head. I agree with @Kimsey47 this car does remind me of the 90's and if all the makers go through with their rumors just to compete with the twins that head to head competition which birthed the greatest cars ever made (IMO) could quite possibly be relived 20 years later. But as of now that's all wishful thinking, its possible its a start, but I dont think we are there just yet.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:11 PM   #26
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I think it's not here yet, but I care more about geeky aspects of cars than most people. The choices are really limited for new cars at the moment since sports cars have been getting axed one by one since the mid 2000s (and no, high dollar tanks with butt massage with a million horsepower do not count as sports cars in my book no matter how fat the tires are, they are status items). Among the cars out there right now, there isn't any new stuff besides more gears in the transmission for better fuel economy, and even then Toyota and Honda are still selling 5 speed POS gearboxes since they're too cheap to make new transmissions.

If Toyota really thinks they're going to bring back sports cars and other companies follow suit, we might have the golden age coming soon.
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