304 SS rusting in two weeks?

[jr429]

Originally Posted by No Limit Motorsport

Two pages of people talking about a dirty exhaust tip with a couple rusty water spots...

The guy wants to know about his exhaust that he probably dropped some coin for - I can't blame him I'd be pissed too!

[sho220]

Originally Posted by No Limit Motorsport

Two pages of people talking about a dirty exhaust tip with a couple rusty water spots...

It's two weeks old and looks like shit. As a vendor, you're okay with that?

I've never had exhaust tips that looked that bad after years of use...stock, aftermarket, whatever...

[No Limit Motorsport]

Originally Posted by sho220

It's two weeks old and looks like shit. As a vendor, you're okay with that?

I've never had exhaust tips that looked that bad after years of use...stock, aftermarket, whatever...

I am ok with it if it cleans up with some metal polish which it appears it should. I have had a few exhausts the look like that after a snow storm. If it doesn't clean up than you have an issue.

[Dark_Angle]

The problem here probably lies in the heat treating process of the product. First off, aside from the make up of the steel, the material needs to be thoroughly cleaned before it can be heat treated. My thoughts are that the product was under treated and wasn't able to reach full austenization temperatures in the furnace. Aside from chromium count, if the material being heat treated wasn't properly treated, then corrosion characteristics will be present. This could possibly be the problem. Also there is a process called passivation, where the product can be made more corrosion resistive by acid submersion. Keep in mind all the above processes are a function of time an temperature.

I think that steel vendors now a days are pretty good at getting the customer what they need.The steel vendors we use are always within +/- 1%. We have many and they are all over the globe. So to point the finger at the steel vendor is probably not the correct approach. The product manufacturer is probably the one to blame for improper treatment.

Is there an issue that the product manufacturer is unwilling to admit their mistake and replace the product?

[Anorax]

Originally Posted by Dark_Angle

Is there an issue that the product manufacturer is unwilling to admit their mistake and replace the product?

I have not yet engaged the product mfgr regarding this issue, only the vendor, who stated that it has been overexposed to the elements and I should google cleaning rust from stainless steel tips.

I did inquire with the manufacturer about the steel grades used in the exhaust and was told they use "Aluminized and SUS304 Stainless Steel"

Unfortunately, I did not get time to hunt for the cleaner last night, so hopefully today...

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Dark_Angle

The problem here probably lies in the heat treating process of the product. First off, aside from the make up of the steel, the material needs to be thoroughly cleaned before it can be heat treated. My thoughts are that the product was under treated and wasn't able to reach full austenization temperatures in the furnace. Aside from chromium count, if the material being heat treated wasn't properly treated, then corrosion characteristics will be present. This could possibly be the problem. Also there is a process called passivation, where the product can be made more corrosion resistive by acid submersion. Keep in mind all the above processes are a function of time an temperature.

I think that steel vendors now a days are pretty good at getting the customer what they need.The steel vendors we use are always within +/- 1%. We have many and they are all over the globe. So to point the finger at the steel vendor is probably not the correct approach. The product manufacturer is probably the one to blame for improper treatment.

Is there an issue that the product manufacturer is unwilling to admit their mistake and replace the product?

first off...300 series stainless is not a heat-treatable material series.

Secondly..... Passivation is as you said initially, an acid dip process, it doesn't change the characteristics of the base material except to remove free iron particles from the surface, hence it is referred to as a surface treatment. it is not a heat vs time process although some specs and or classes of passivate do require or prefer an elevated temperature.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by jr429

Perhaps we should get back to how magnetism is actually detected?

By all means explain away, but no one is checking for magnetism here, we were looking to see if it was attracted to a magnet, maybe not a big difference to some, but a critical difference still.

I am NOT a metallurgist but I have paid good money to a lot of metallurgists and material failure scientists for everything from camshafts, valve caps, to seamless extruded piping used to mfg both titanium and SS exhaust systems. As I understand high impurity levels as well as the desire to "half ass" production from the foundry (and yes I have toured seamless tube foundries) can cause this type of rust situation.

then you agree in the analysis that there is surface contamination...whether here or there or caused by this or that...all of which has been covered and listed and explained as a potential.

I have seen this problem myself and shipped entire containers back because of it. On the flip side I have had exhaust systems come back due to defects, etc. from all over the world, some places clearly winter conditions with a lot of salt, and all of the product we produced never exhibited that kind of coating. So as a betting man I would say source material is impure or not truly 304. Maybe I"m wrong, but I've built and sold a lot of exhaust related components...

Maybe it's time you support your local economy instead of buying the cheapest parts you can from china?

I honestly have no experience with bad material quality, my industry doesn't allow for the purchase of bottom barrel non traceable junk metals...want 304? buy 304...

want quality???...buy american

[wu_dot_com]

Originally Posted by Swift

Like most here , that should not rust and they are right that just because the manufacturer states its 304 it might not be or be complete shit. I knew a guy interning somewhere in chicagoland who was inspecting our aftermarket/oem wheels for the metal makeup. He said it was scary what wasn't in it and what was compared to what the manufacturer claimed it was.

But to me, it takes a lot more than 2 wks of salt to make 304(good) rust that fast.

Ps- i'm a machinist

i agreed, with my experience, it will take more than 120hr of 90% humiditiy salt fog test per MIL-STD-810 for it to look like that on a 304 with certs.

[jr429]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Maybe it's time you support your local economy instead of buying the cheapest parts you can from china?

I honestly have no experience with bad material quality, my industry doesn't allow for the purchase of bottom barrel non traceable junk metals...want 304? buy 304...

want quality???...buy american

Come on, tell me one automotive company that builds 100% in the states. Please... What industry are you in? Wishful thinking is incongruent with reality.

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by jr429

Come on, tell me one automotive company that builds 100% in the states. Please... What industry are you in? Wishful thinking is incongruent with reality.

Nameless Performance...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Tainen

Nameless Performance...

Also Motiv Concepts and JDL .

[jr429]

Originally Posted by Tainen

Nameless Performance...

Sorry I meant high volume mfgs not a few one offs done in the shop. I've built a lot of components back in the day, and I used to build some exhaust, intakes, etc. here in the states. The stuff done in the states (at least the factories I worked with was NOT better) they are all typically geared towards industrial solutions so that's why a lot of the "made in usa" stuff looks more industrial. Certainly there are fabrication companies geared towards medical and aerospace, but I've never wanted to build a $5000 exhaust system.

The reality is if your materials are sourced correctly, your equipment is good, and your guys are good you will turn out better quality every time in China. The reason for this is you can have a guy sitting there and spend 6 hours welding together a titanium muffler bead by bead and it'll cost the same as the guy with a MIG here slapping something together. If you have enough production the factory is building for YOU, they are not on a tight schedule to switch production to some factory's chemical piping system or a couple of dozen diesel stacks for trucks.

I don't know of any larger automotive component mfg that doesn't source a portion (if not all) of their product in China. Hell just try buying 1/2" SS304 billet here to CNC machine, guess where the majority of those sheets come from? I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in Cali most of that is shipped from China anyways.

[jr429]

Originally Posted by Tainen

Nameless Performance...

Actually I took a look at their site. I would be VERY surprised a lot of those rolled tips, flex sections, and muffler bodies were all built in the states. Certainly you can buy seamless pipe, a mandrel bender and a MIG welder but chances are you are not building a lot of that stuff in the states. I would question if those flanges are CNC cut in the states also - it's not cheap to do that here.

BTW looking at that WRX downpipe in good quality used to cost $80 to make in China with investment cast head. Would you rather pay $249 for a WRX downpipe built in China or $599 here? Most WRX owners would say $249.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by jr429

Sorry I meant high volume mfgs not a few one offs done in the shop. I've built a lot of components back in the day, and I used to build some exhaust, intakes, etc. here in the states. The stuff done in the states (at least the factories I worked with was NOT better) they are all typically geared towards industrial solutions so that's why a lot of the "made in usa" stuff looks more industrial. Certainly there are fabrication companies geared towards medical and aerospace, but I've never wanted to build a $5000 exhaust system.

The reality is if your materials are sourced correctly, your equipment is good, and your guys are good you will turn out better quality every time in China. The reason for this is you can have a guy sitting there and spend 6 hours welding together a titanium muffler bead by bead and it'll cost the same as the guy with a MIG here slapping something together. If you have enough production the factory is building for YOU, they are not on a tight schedule to switch production to some factory's chemical piping system or a couple of dozen diesel stacks for trucks.

I don't know of any larger automotive component mfg that doesn't source a portion (if not all) of their product in China. Hell just try buying 1/2" SS304 billet here to CNC machine, guess where the majority of those sheets come from? I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in Cali most of that is shipped from China anyways.

All my company's stainless flat 304/304L is from the USA, and we're in Canada. Shouldn't be that hard in Cali.

Tubing is a mix of USA (RathGibson, good), Malaysia (Crystal Palace, sometimes acceptable), and unmarked (assumed to be Chinese, and sometimes acceptable but often terrible).