Need Input on SQ System for a BRZ.

[Skippman]

As many of you know I am planning a build for my new 2013 BRZ. Now that I have the car and have many of my cosmetic modifications out of the way it's time to start planning. I have a variety of thoughts on the situation and could use your input.

Being that I'm in St. Louis and there's next to no audio scene left here I'm kind of stuck using a specific local install shop. They're VERY good at what they do. The problem is their priced accordingly and my install cost would easily be half my budget if I used them.

Any advice or thoughts are welcome.


1.) Just get the OEM Audio + system and upgrade to the Reference series later.

Pros: "Inexpensive", plug and play, complete solution, and pre-tuned for the vehicle.

Cons: No time alignment uses a Class-D amp, difficult to reconfigure for headunits.

After having a chance to hear the OEM Audio + system here locally at Ackerman Toyota in a 2013 Scion I have to say it sounds pretty good for an all in one system. It eats up minimal trunk space and is entirely plug and play. The fact it comes pre-tuned for the car helps as well and from what I hear their customer support is top notch and it's relatively inexpensive.



2.) Build a Custom System with Conventional Speakers

Pros: Uses a Class A/B amp, easier to acquire components, can be time aligned.

Cons: More expensive, tuning time, requires custom installation.

I could just use an Audison 5.1K with a Bit Ten D and a set of Hertz High Energy 165.3 speakers and call it a day. This would be all off the shelf components, would allow me to run full active, and should in theory be straight-foward to tune. This is definitely the middle of the road solution.



3.) Build a Custom System with Widebanders

Pros: Uses a Class A/B amp, theoretically better sound staging, can be time aligned.

Cons: Most expensive, more difficult to tune, more "esoteric" parts, requires custom installation.

My original plan was to use a set of Audible Physics NzA Duo widebanders and a subwoofer powered by a Audison Voce 5.1K amp and tuned by a Bit Ten D. If tuned properly this could sound amazing, at least on paper it should. I've never hear the Audible Physics IRL and from my understanding their US Dealer got fired by the company so I'd have to order them overseas. This would also require a lot more custom work to get everything installed and tuned correctly.


Thoughts?

[Zippy]

Hi Skippman,

I'm currently having my system installed by a local shop near me. I did something a little different than you are looking to do. Here's some of what I chose and why.

Pioneer AVH-X8500BHS head unit
Hertz Mille MLK 3 PA front components
Audison Voce 1.1 & 3.0 rear fill
Audison Voce AV 12 sub
Arc Audio PS-8 DSP
2 Hertz HDP4

The Mille 3 way components sound incredible. I'm using stock locations for all components. The rear fill voce tweets are right next to the rear 3". I'm doing active/passive from the amps. The tweets and 3's are passive with the crossovers provided by eletromedia. The Mille 6.5 in the doors is active off the PS8. Due to the close proximity of the passive tweet and 3's the time alignment is not off enough between them to be noticeable.

The Audison Voce AV 12 was chosen after I read the specs on it. I had to have one of the guys at the shop verify that I was reading it correctly cause it looked too good on paper. This is one of the best subs you can get for SQ. There is no mechanical sound coming from it as the cone moves. The imaging from it is all surrounding. You can not tell where it is located. Also when the installer can't stop talking about how much he likes the sub that is always a good thing. He's brought it up on three separate occasions so far.

The reason why I went with the PS8 is it can handle 32bit/192khz audio files. The audison bit processors can not handle anything over 96khz. I have a large collection of master recordings and enjoy listening to them. So this removed the bit one from my list of DSPs. On a side note, my installer is loving what the PS-8 can do from a time alignment and EQ tuning perspective. The DSP has more control than the Audison bit one. The drawbacks of it is the interface is rather bland as it is brand new and they have not released a controller for it yet.

The HDP4 amps are class D. I went for this due to not wanting to impact the car's fun to drive aspect or MPG much. Yes I can improve the audio with a class AB or A amp. I'm waiting till later on after enough burn in of turbo/supercharger offerings have been tested for reliability. I do not want to give up the fun to drive aspect for audio quality and will upgrade the amps after I add boost to it. For future upgrade, I'm looking at the new linear power amps that have come out and the Thesis TH quatro amps.

Hope this helps.

PS: I'll be posting my build when it is done.

[ft_sjo]

I'd go with #2. It'd probably sound the best, especially if you make some on-axis tweeter pods where the OE speaker grilles are.

[rupert]

#2 would probably be best, but I would prefer #3. Stepping away from the conventional speakers would give you a lot more options down the road.

I will be going with a wideband two-way setup in my install (that I still haven't gotten to lol), but will lay down a third pair of wiring. That will easily allow me to switch to a three-way active setup in the future if the wideband driver does not float my boat.

The only thing I will be concerned about is the tuning. While the premise sounds easy, I'm curious how long it would take a n00b like myself to accomplish.

[Skippman]

That's why I'm having a pro shop do the tuning. I tried it once with a PXA-H510 from Alpine and man was that a nightmare.

I'm currently talking with Audible Physics directly as they no longer have a North American distributor. Everyone seems to rave about the NzA Duo's and I like the install options for them. I could get away almost completely stealth and use mostly factory locations.

I was looking at the new Zapco amp's recently but I've read they're not the same quality which seems a shame.


Zippy, that Arc Audio DSP looks great on paper. Have you heard it? 8V preamp outputs! Good god. I'll be interested to see how you shoe horn that Voce 12" in there. the 10" looks good as well.

[Zippy]

There is a lot of custom fab going on. The rear tire and foam are gone and an amp rack which is in the tire well is providing the bottom-back support of the sub box. The 12 is in a 1 cu ft box centered across the back seats on a wall built by the installer which sits just behind the rear seats when up. The box is not bolted to the wall. There is a bottom support across the wall for the sub box. There is a leather buffer between the wall and the sub box. The back bottom corner of the sub is bolted to the amp rack. I looked at the 10" as well, but the frequency responce at lower levels was much better on the 12".

I have not heard the system with the DSP yet. I heard the Mille's with the amps and passive crossovers only. That sounded better than any system I had installed before. It almost did not need a sub. I asked not to hear it again till it's done after that. If you are on diyma forums, D-Bass works where I'm doing the install at. I did a lot of talking with him before picking what I was installing. He's a really good resource. PM him on that forum if you are there and bounce ideas/questions off him. If you are looking at option 2, go Mille instead of Hi Energy. You'll be much happier.

PS: I'm up to 4 mentions of the Voce 12 so far from the installer ;-) I'm beginning to think that they want me to hear it sooner than I asked to.

[Skippman]

Any other thoughts?

[ogredave]

I'm currently planning on wideband (MA Ascension 8.9AT), front sub, and MS8. I will have everything within the week except the wideband, waiting for the release.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Skippman

I'm currently talking with Audible Physics directly as they no longer have a North American distributor. Everyone seems to rave about the NzA Duo's and I like the install options for them. I could get away almost completely stealth and use mostly factory locations.

I tried getting some sense out of them; didn't succeed. Either poor on communications or too busy, I guess. Decided to go back to DLS.