Are you willing to push your car off a cliff?

[ayau]

What do you frequent track enthusiasts do about track insurance? The following statement has been posted many times, "if you can't push your car off a cliff and walk away, then you shouldn't track your car."

Are you willing to push your car off a cliff?

I've thought about the question many times, and the risk/reward just isn't worth it to me. Maybe I'll purchase a $3k Civic and track with that instead. For now, I'll stick with autox, where the risk and damage are relatively low.

[Miniata]

That's my personal philosophy. I know the risk of serious damage at a NASA HPDE or SCCA PDX are pretty low, but I have seen accidents happen at them, and even if you don't do anything wrong, someone else can lose their brakes or lose control and take you out.

I only take cars that are paid for to the track. Lately that is my Mustang. When my BRZ is paid off or very nearly so in a year or two, then I'll take it to track days as well. I have thought about getting track day insurance for the BRZ and take it out occasionally, but IIRC that would add another $150-200 to the cost of each track day, which isn't worth it for me since I have other options.

[Vanga]

I'm sure a lot of tracks vary, but all the tracks around me, everyone is very respectful to each other and passing and are cautious to who is around them. Yes, there are always accidents, but personally, I'd rather be around people who truly know how to drive than a congested highway full of teenagers who can't take their eye of the cell.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Miniata

That's my personal philosophy. I know the risk of serious damage at a NASA HPDE or SCCA PDX are pretty low, but I have seen accidents happen at them, and even if you don't do anything wrong, someone else can lose their brakes or lose control and take you out.

I only take cars that are paid for to the track. Lately that is my Mustang. When my BRZ is paid off or very nearly so in a year or two, then I'll take it to track days as well. I have thought about getting track day insurance for the BRZ and take it out occasionally, but IIRC that would add another $150-200 to the cost of each track day, which isn't worth it for me since I have other options.

I don't know how dependable these insurance policies are. Even for a regular accident in public streets, it seems like insurance companies will try everything they can to deny your claim.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Vanga

I'm sure a lot of tracks vary, but all the tracks around me, everyone is very respectful to each other and passing and are cautious to who is around them. Yes, there are always accidents, but personally, I'd rather be around people who truly know how to drive than a congested highway full of teenagers who can't take their eye of the cell.

I agree with what you said in terms of safety. However, you have insurance when you get hit in public streets, but insurance is a little more grey at track events.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Vanga

I'd rather be around people who truly know how to drive than a congested highway full of teenagers who can't take their eye of the cell.

Me too, but I'd rather be insured in both cases.

Between registration costs/fuel/tires/brake pads&fluid/various oil changes etc and extra wear&tear $150 bucks isn't that much.

[ayau]

Paging @CSG Mike and @robispec since they frequently visit the track.

[Vanga]

Originally Posted by ayau

I agree with what you said in terms of safety. However, you have insurance when you get hit in public streets, but insurance is a little more grey at track events.

Agreed! And don't get me wrong, Its not something I would do with my car because I depend on my car too much to get to work and school and I can't afford the repair costs or life without it, But under the assumption that money isn't an issue, I would take it out to the track, why not.

[robispec]

a little bit stark but as with anything risk can be managed or planned for.

Robi

[ayau]

Almost forgot @Dave-ROR.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ayau

I agree with what you said in terms of safety. However, you have insurance when you get hit in public streets, but insurance is a little more grey at track events.

I use lockton affinity for HPDE insurance. I've talked to people who have had claims and haven't had any issues but thankfully I haven't had to make a claim yet. I also don't drive 10/10ths in my street cars.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I also don't drive 10/10ths in my street cars.

This is probably the key. The track incidents almost never happen in the novice group. It's the advanced guys that run into problems because they are running so close to the edge.

I try to remember that I'm just there to have fun, not break any records. I think there's a 'sweet spot' when it comes to lap times for a specific car. Too high, and you're just driving too slow. Too low, and you're really taking risks. At the right pace, you're having fun, doing well, and taking lower risks.

That being said, you can't control the environment and the cars around you. This is where being able to walk way from the car if something happens or buying insurance comes into play.

[Black Tire]

Accidents do happen, but the risks can be mitigated with thoughtful driving - as said in many posts already. Ask around and pick a club or organization in your area with good people and track rules created with safety in mind. Then, if you are new to the track, insist on having an instructor you are compatible with ride with you during every session. The instructor should be skilled enough to know when you are driving over your head and either talk you into slowing down until you learn more or take you into the pits for a talk (or both). Since you seem to be the cautious type, a good instructor may need to push you to go just a little faster as well, so get someone you can trust. If you enjoy autocrossing, you should be able to enjoy a longer track given a situation you feel comfortable with. If you realize that your goal in a HPDE is to enjoy your car at speeds that are not safe on public roads, NOT to race or set the fastest time, you should be fine. If you want to race there are other places for that.

For myself, I am considering buying track day insurance for my next event(s). Since I am an instructor (15 years with the BMWCCA), I usually don't pay for track time so a few hundred for insurance may be worth it. By the way, you don't need a BMW to join the BMW club and participate in events. SCCA and NASA are other good sources to look at when choosing a club. The best club for you will depend on where you are, what is available, and most importantly the people who are in your local club.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by ayau

Are you willing to push your car off a cliff?

NO Way! If I ever do a track day it'll be insured.