Results after full blown kit installed

[whitefrs]

Lj is the man


I love boost!!!!!!

[frs87]

Originally Posted by Kiske

If I was in this situation, I'd call Full Blown, order one of their short blocks and have them re-install, tune and check everything over. That way it is correct, safe and done right.

Even if you like the local shop and mechanic why screw with the possibility again? If he hasn't rebuilt a boxer engine then why let (and pay) him learn on yours? You already will have to buy a short block, reinstall the turbo kit correctly and tune it still. Why risk fucking it up a second time?

If I was in this situation, I'd call Full Blown, order one of their short blocks and have them re-install, tune and check everything over. That way it is correct, safe and done right.

It will be costing you a pretty penny no matter which route you take, however you should be golden with fullblown doing the work AND you will have the benefit of more/safer power with their low compression engine so you win there.

Either way wish you luck.




Intersting, most shops around here get pissy when you mention you DIY and imediatly fault you for anything related or not.

yea if i had the money for their short block i would, but i had to order brand new short block, being more cautious this time and im not gonna get on it at all until i have LJ adjust my tune and send it back, i cant fault anybody or point the finger really but i can def have everything checked a few times before i even drive it...thanks for the advice man

[regal]

Originally Posted by FirestormFRS

I just don't understand the desire of people with limited to zero knowledge of cars deciding to pony up $$$'s to blow said car up due to aforementioned lack of knowledge.
OP buy a short block from Full Blown or whoever. They offer a pretty sweet short block at a very reasonable price.

Bingo Bango Bongo, at least one person understands what I'm trying to communicate

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

I installed my turbo kit in a single car garage with two buddies. I installed my built engine in a driveway by myself and have had no issues at all. Not so inconceivable, you just have to leave the tunning part to the experts

The Frozen North

I agree fully, anyone who grew up playing with cars can install a turbo kit, but the tuning is un obtainable for many people. Vendors best interest is not publicizing this (I'm not pointing at FB.)

Originally Posted by Kiske

If I was in this situation, I'd call Full Blown, order one of their short blocks and have them re-install, tune and check everything over. That way it is correct, safe and done right.

Even if you like the local shop and mechanic why screw with the possibility again? If he hasn't rebuilt a boxer engine then why let (and pay) him learn on yours? You already will have to buy a short block, reinstall the turbo kit correctly and tune it still. Why risk fucking it up a second time?

If I was in this situation, I'd call Full Blown, order one of their short blocks and have them re-install, tune and check everything over. That way it is correct, safe and done right.

It will be costing you a pretty penny no matter which route you take, however you should be golden with fullblown doing the work AND you will have the benefit of more/safer power with their low compression engine so you win there.

Either way wish you luck.




Intersting, most shops around here get pissy when you mention you DIY and imediatly fault you for anything related or not.

And how far away is Full Blown from 99.999% of the population, that's the issue. You are very very lucky if you have a shop like that near you most of us don't

Originally Posted by woode

What he is saying is that the base map should not have caused this catastrophic failure. No base map is going to put an AFR anywhere near 19:1 at any point. Something else was wrong with the car.


I feel like you post in every single FI thread about how there are no good tuners and/or FI is bad on this platform..

Not reading my full posts again, I have never said FI is bad on this platform. Hell I said Tada should be fired (moved is the better term) for not letting Subaru configure Subaru's FA20T for this car in the first place. Things do get complicated and beyond an average enthusiasts' budget and time commitment at high boost levels that require built short blocks, its too early. Only a small fraction have all the cards in place to build a high boost FA20. today. It will get easier in a few years but the recipe isn't finalized and its far from cookie cutter. I'll wager you managed 2 or 3 sentences out of this post, but some do read and hopefully my opinion has helped someone's hobby from turning into a nightmare.

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by regal

Only a small fraction have all the cards in place to build a high boost FA20. today. It will get easier in a few years but the recipe isn't finalized and its far from cookie cutter. I'll wager you managed 2 or 3 sentences out of this post, but some do read and hopefully my opinion has helped someone's hobby from turning into a nightmare.

You keep saying this. What you're talking about doesn't ever happen if people don't push the limits, and pushing limits invariably ends up with blown motors, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened here.

Dudes motor blew up while running either a conservative basemap or an incorrect map. Either way it's human error that resulted in a blown motor, and would have happened even if someone had a perfect house of cards stacked up for us to point at and say, "do it this way".

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by regal

Only a small fraction have all the cards in place to build a high boost FA20. today. It will get easier in a few years but the recipe isn't finalized and its far from cookie cutter. I'll wager you managed 2 or 3 sentences out of this post, but some do read and hopefully my opinion has helped someone's hobby from turning into a nightmare.

By High Boost you mean 25-30 psi?

I shake my damn head everytime I see this posts.

Look, you are correct when you say Johny the corner kid who just turned 19, lives with mom and pop and works for pizza hut delivery, zero experience with cars should not even venture into FIing the car.

But you keep throwing out there how it is almost unfathomable and impossible to boost this car to say, 12-16 psi (MAYBE I misunderstand you but that is how it comes up).

I do agree with you 100000%, the essence of it all is THE TUNE. Fuel quality also plays a HUGE role.

The formula to properly boost this motor (or any other in general aside from 20 year old studied to death motors) is to have money and have a good shop do it.

I've been boosting 16 psi for 7K miles. No issues to date. My tuner, @jamesm has pushed his car to 24 psi. Good as new. Brandon has done a few dyno passes at 25 psi. Full blown more than all of us combined. Dynosty the same...

Do I expect the motor to hold stock 25 psi long miles? Of course not.

Do I expect a daily driven car, properly tuned and fueled at 12-16 psi to last? Yes. The fuel and tune will prevent your car from knocking itself to death.

I agree good tuners are far and few in between. BUT there are good tuners out there.

James (HRI Tuning)
Delicious
LJ/Full Blown
Hall/Dynosty
JuniorAWD
Bob/Drift Office

to name a few....

[sw20kosh]

Doesn't this high tech sophisticated ecu have the ability to detect knock and if it is bad enough go into limp mode so you don't blow your engine? Genuinely asking here.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Doesn't this high tech sophisticated ecu have the ability to detect knock and if it is bad enough go into limp mode so you don't blow your engine? Genuinely asking here.

It does pull back timing moreso than the average OEM ECU and can withstand really REALLY REEEEAALLLYYY bad tunes for a long while, but if the knock is not corrected, the water drop will eventually blow a hole in the rock /figuratively/literally.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Doesn't this high tech sophisticated ecu have the ability to detect knock and if it is bad enough go into limp mode so you don't blow your engine? Genuinely asking here.

It can only pull a maximum of 5 degrees of timing. EcuTek allows failsafes to be put in place but the OEM ECU code isn't going to stop this from happening if your fuel pump drops pressure and the car begins to lean out.

[w00t692]

Originally Posted by Crazy Drew

Fix whatever burnt up and get a real tune. If I even saw anything near 14.59 afr on a turbo car I'd flip a shit, much less 19 under load, and wouldn't get back into boost until I got it tuned. I'm surprised it didn't pop sooner.

Car's don't really run at 19:1 afr. That would feel like a fuel cut.

He didn't mention what his afr was at wot, which is what is important. He needs to give more info, but from what i read about those melted pistons it was definitely lean. If it did that with one 4th gear pull i'd guess his afr's were in the 14's at wot.

The leanest i could get my car to idle was at about 17-18:1 afr for reference. And leaning out past 15.5 afr at partial throttle results in torque loss.

The crazy bit is ignition timing at partial throttle can destroy a boosted setup faster than anything even when it doesnt' feel like you're blowing it up. too much ignition when hitting between atmospheric and 3'ish psi is probably the number 1 cause of most n/a to turbo setups blowing up. Tuner is lazy and thinks your'e just going to wot all the time, fucks up your timing map greatly in certain spots.

[Mikem53]

Great post Captn Obvious... The world is now a better place...
and there is a reason why people don't read your full posts...

Anybody who is going to invest in FI would be aware of the risks and
Challenges. There are plenty of DIYs that are safely running descent amounts
Of boost. Tunes can be supported remotely as well.. This is the connected age and you are over simplifying things here.. You seem to always blow things
Out of proportion with the sky is falling mentality..
Many of the engine mishaps have been caused by bad installs or an over anxious
Owner who pushed beyond the limits. Not because it's so unknown or unsafe..
and Tada did just fine by me...

Originally Posted by regal

Bingo Bango Bongo, at least one person understands what I'm trying to communicate


I agree fully, anyone who grew up playing with cars can install a turbo kit, but the tuning is un obtainable for many people. Vendors best interest is not publicizing this (I'm not pointing at FB.)

And how far away is Full Blown from 99.999% of the population, that's the issue. You are very very lucky if you have a shop like that near you most of us don't


Not reading my full posts again, I have never said FI is bad on this platform. Hell I said Tada should be fired (moved is the better term) for not letting Subaru configure Subaru's FA20T for this car in the first place. Things do get complicated and beyond an average enthusiasts' budget and time commitment at high boost levels that require built short blocks, its too early. Only a small fraction have all the cards in place to build a high boost FA20. today. It will get easier in a few years but the recipe isn't finalized and its far from cookie cutter. I'll wager you managed 2 or 3 sentences out of this post, but some do read and hopefully my opinion has helped someone's hobby from turning into a nightmare.

[cdrazic93]

Whenever I see a FI my car has xxx issues blah blah blah, I feel like regal likes to comment to say why FI kits shouldn't be used on This NA motor because of the availability of tunes and/or some dumb kid not knowing what he's doing to his motor.

People want to build their cars. Turning an NA motor into a Turbo motor albeit with just bolt ons is half the fun, it presents more of a challenge than just simply upgrading a turbo motor. High PSI will blow up any engine setup improperly; this includes fuel lines, tune and everything in between.

Reputable shops won't just weld some tubes together and put a turbo with it to call it a kit. There is research, and hard tangible data behind why they choose what they choose. The base map IMO is intended for getting you to a tuner ASAP.

There is a reason why people make the 1,000+ mile trips to these tuners. You're right, my local mechanic wouldn't be able to tell me where my oil cooler is located on the car, but that's not going to deter me from getting my car tuned properly, whether it be 10 miles away or 1000.

/rant

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by w00t692

The crazy bit is ignition timing at partial throttle can destroy a boosted setup faster than anything even when it doesnt' feel like you're blowing it up. too much ignition when hitting between atmospheric and 3'ish psi is probably the number 1 cause of most n/a to turbo setups blowing up. Tuner is lazy and thinks your'e just going to wot all the time, fucks up your timing map greatly in certain spots.

QFT.... I'm amazed at the amount of tunes I've seen logs part throttle, cruising, knocking -3.8 to -5.5......

Ridiculously lazy.

[regal]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Whenever I see a FI my car has xxx issues blah blah blah, I feel like regal likes to comment to say why FI kits shouldn't be used on This NA motor because of the availability of tunes and/or some dumb kid not knowing what he's doing to his motor.

/rant

No I am saying the absolute opposite. I'm saying buy the kit and stick with the tested to hell and back tune that comes with it. Avo is the perfect example I keep coming back to. It comes with a tune so good as I wouldn't even call it a basemap. Its when you push the limits above the standard kit 8-9 psi that disasters can happen. Or you buy the kit without Avo's tune ("tuner kit") and have joe blow tune it and wonder why it threw a rod



@Sportsguy83, I believe we are saying the same thing. I just think people need things lined up and a tuner they trust their life with when going to higher boost levels. Thanks for the list, you do realize it is fairly small compared to other N/A performance cars? This car is still "rare" to a typical tuner and has some slightly complicated "gotchas."

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by regal

No I am saying the absolute opposite. I'm saying buy the kit and stick with the tested to hell and back tune that comes with it. Avo is the perfect example I keep coming back to. It comes with a tune so good as I wouldn't even call it a basemap. Its when you push the limits above the standard kit 8-9 psi that disasters can happen. Or you buy the kit without Avo's tune ("tuner kit") and have joe blow tune it and wonder why it threw a rod

I don't recall @Sportsguy83 enjoying his AVO "tested to hell and back tune".