Sad BRZ display at the auto show

[krayzie]

Well the lawyers thru class action lawsuits also figured long time ago that a modern automobile has an average usable life expectancy of 7 years / 160,000km. I would say that's how long a typical manufacturer cares about engine life.

[NemesisPrime909]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is a camp that says rev the crap out of new engines to make things seat better. Maybe once was true but a bad idea with modern engines. Still some people stick with the theory no matter what the engineers that designed and built the car say. I for one will follow instructions.

agreed because I do NOT know better than the designers and engineers. So why would i do anything that they don't suggest in regards to the car they built?

[NemesisPrime909]

Originally Posted by saj

I remember the last time I went to the LA Auto Show there was a kid sitting in a BMW Z4M Roadster slamming through the gears without the clutch. His brother was in the passenger seat banging on things, and his mom was standing beside taking pictures of them.

I feel like somewhere in Bavaria a BMW builder is crying at that notion

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

Since when do manufacturers care how long your engine lasts? They only want it to cover the warranty. After that. They would LOVE to sell you some new rings. Lol.

Reputation. Why do you think Kia and Hyundai have exploded in sales in a last decade? They stand by their product and make something that doesn't fall apart. Not to mention they can also make a shitload of money selling extended warranties that are never used if they design the car to go as long as the extended warranty.

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

They also say your first oil change isn't due until like 5000 miles. You believe that too? Personally I changed my oil at 1100 miles. And again at 3000. Don't want any chips or flakes floating around the oil and damaging bearings.

1) Original fill oil is very different than normal oil, removing it is going to cause more wear.


2) Original filter is usually very different too (at least on Toyotas).


3) You don't have metal floating around, it's called a filter...

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

The factory didn't give us a magnetic drain plug either. Must be because the engineers know we don't need one right? Lol.

Yet again, you have a filter. Magnetic drain plugs are for systems without filters; differential and transmission.

[SleepingPanda]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Reputation. Why do you think Kia and Hyundai have exploded in sales in a last decade? They stand by their product and make something that doesn't fall apart. Not to mention they can also make a shitload of money selling extended warranties that are never used if they design the car to go as long as the extended warranty.




1) Original fill oil is very different than normal oil, removing it is going to cause more wear.


2) Original filter is usually very different too (at least on Toyotas).


3) You don't have metal floating around, it's called a filter...





Yet again, you have a filter. Magnetic drain plugs are for systems without filters; differential and transmission.

Weird. So you've never seen metal collect onto a magnetic drain plug? Also oil splashes around the pan and onto the crank. It's called unfiltered oil. Those tiny metal particles have a chance of splashing onto the crank.

Please tell us how super special this factory oil is. And where is the evidence showing that changing it after 1000 miles is causing more wear than keeping it in. I'd really love to see facts.

And the oil filter is different too? Wow. Lol.

[SleepingPanda]

Originally Posted by BRZSS

Ever since Toyota Camry's got the reputation of being low cost maintenance and lasting forever. If your engines won't last well past warranty then your reputation as a company goes down hill.

Again, if they don't break the engine in themselves, they're then relying on the consumer to do it properly. You never trust that a consumer will "follow every instruction to the letter". You can't even gurantee your sales men will follow the instructions as evident by the "take it to redline" sales men mentioned already. Your opening yourself to lots of money spent on potential engine failure claims in doing that.

All the backyard myths about engine break in's are just superstition based on kernels of truth. Engineers have figured out the science behind it along time ago. The machining and precision process has caught up to the point now an engine can be broken in and ready to go after one heat cycle under a stress test procedure (as seen in the video).

And to your other points, I changed my oil at 5500 miles for the first change. No issues with an Oil Analysis test. I must of just got lucky though you know?

Not many cars come from the factory with a magnetic drain plug also. Including hypercars, supercars, sports cars, corvettes, camaro's, mustangs, and what not. Never been a chronic issue. Matt Farrah's Million mile lexus didn't leave the factory with a mag plug either.

You can hold tight to your superstition and feel good and justified if your engine lasts and thats fine. Your "Break" in doesn't have any negative impact on the engine. So you can believe you've done your self well. Engineers will just get to have a small chuckle at the people who continue to do "break" in on new cars. Driving around varying speed and rpm and every other notion under the sun the first 100, 200, 500, or 1,000 miles or whatever specific measurement your particular break in belief is. Instead of just driving the vehicle the way its meant to be off the show room floor.

I'm sorry. Did you think I drive the car lightly from day one? I'm the one disagreeing with keeping it under 4K rpm for the first 1000 miles. But ok then. Thanks for the essay.

[PandaSPUR]

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

Weird. So you've never seen metal collect onto a magnetic drain plug? Also oil splashes around the pan and onto the crank. It's called unfiltered oil. Those tiny metal particles have a chance of splashing onto the crank.

Please tell us how super special this factory oil is. And where is the evidence showing that changing it after 1000 miles is causing more wear than keeping it in. I'd really love to see facts.

And the oil filter is different too? Wow. Lol.

Not sure about the filter, or whether special oil is actually used in our cars. But break-in oils do exist, google it.

But I guess you could also argue that break-in oil is snake oil. Might as well disprove the differences that exist between oil grades while you're at it.

And you doubt the effectiveness of a filter vs a magnetic drain plug? How are tiny metal particles going to wreck your engine more than redlining in the first few miles?

One person argues that lawyers wrote the manual, thats why the 4k RPM break-in limit is written in there. So why would lawyers suggest you do an oil-change at 5,000 miles rather than sooner if doing it sooner is safer for the engine?

I'm not a professional mechanic, but I can't help but notice the contradictions in this discussion. It must all be a freaking conspiracy.

Whether or not lawyers had an influence on the manual, I know engineers definitely did. I'm patient enough to keep my car under 4k RPM for a little bit and follow directions, even if it only means giving the dealership one less reason to reject warranty work.

[BRZSS]

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

But ok then. Thanks for the essay.

You're welcome, glad to help buddy.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

Weird. So you've never seen metal collect onto a magnetic drain plug? Also oil splashes around the pan and onto the crank. It's called unfiltered oil. Those tiny metal particles have a chance of splashing onto the crank.

1) It would collect on the magnet instead of the filter, big deal. All the oil is going to the pan first then to the filter.


2) Oil is not splashing from the pan to the crank. This is why there's baffles and deep sumps used and having the crank hit the oil in the pan would cause foaming (hint: foam = air = air doesn't lubricate)


3) The crank, cylinder walls, and pistons are all constantly sprayed with oil...that's been through the filter.

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

Please tell us how super special this factory oil is. And where is the evidence showing that changing it after 1000 miles is causing more wear than keeping it in. I'd really love to see facts.

Original fill oil is very high in moly. Not to mention that the main issue with a super aggressive break in isn't wear, it's HEAT. Properly heat cycling everything and not letting things get overly hot while the friction is still relatively high compared to a fully broken in motor. Moly combats this. The same goes for the drivetrain (If you've ever had a break in a new ring and pinion you know this...)

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

And the oil filter is different too? Wow. Lol.

Yes, not sure on the twins though. Toyota break in filter looks like this



Do you really need to be spoon fed? Ignorance is curable, do some reading, please.

[SleepingPanda]

Remember that time Mercedes transmissions were sealed. Called them lifetime maintenance free transmissions! Never needs service! Lol. Then like clockwork they exploded at 100k miles. But yes. You're right. Changing the oil frequently in my engine is going to hurt. Taking out all the precious molys. The manual knows all.

[Tcoat]

Engine shops a that do builds and rebuilt bikes get broke in at high revs because they have not had any break in yet. The engines at the factory are broken in under very controlled conditions including the proper duration and revs for each power band. The whole idea of driver break in is just so that you do not change these parameters.
The whole "procedures written by lawyers" thing is hilarious and wrong. They may be involved but it is the engineering team that makes the call on what should be done and they have valid reasons for saying what they do.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NemesisPrime909

I feel like somewhere in Bavaria a BMW builder is crying at that notion

Not hurting thing by shifting the gears when the car is not running.

[krayzie]

Goto 1:36 on this video

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[Tcoat]

Won't let me quote.
That is the procedure to ensure the engine is running to spec not the break in. The break in is done before the engines ever hits the car.