2019 Special Edition BRZ, any ideas???

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by ermax

I just noticed a new release of Techstream which adds support for all the 2019 models... Thought is was odd that all but the 86 are on the list.... hmmm:

Well the LS500 isn't on the list either. Can't see that model being discontinued.

Why some people think the BRZ and Miata need to follow the standard 5 year refresh cycle is beyond me.

The twins platform will continue as is with incremental improvements made to it over time until the manufacturer fails to get it pass certain safety / emission standards. Even if they discontinue it for next year, I say 7 years is a great run cuz that means it's a really good design to last that long.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by dtbdan

Both the president of toyota Europe and Fuji heavy industries confirmed there is going to be a second generation, there are no significant improvements because at this point it doesn't make sense to invest in the current generation when you're in the main part of product development if a 2021 release is correct. So in August or September the brz/86 will be sold as a 2019 but virtually unchanged from 2018.

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No. Both of them have been said to have made those statements on clickbait car blogs. Then other sites took those articles and ran with them as "fact".
These are the same sites that guaranteed that their sources confirmed a turbo version in 2015. Oh wait we meant 2016. Oh it was delayed so 2017. Sorry we wrote 2018 wrong in the past articles so it will be here soon.
There is not one single official statement by either company on the future of the car.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is not one single official statement by either company on the future of the car.

Which pretty much says it all.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Which pretty much says it all.

That can be interpreted in several ways and does not mean as much as people seem to think.

[dtbdan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No. Both of them have been said to have made those statements on clickbait car blogs. Then other sites took those articles and ran with them as "fact".
These are the same sites that guaranteed that their sources confirmed a turbo version in 2015. Oh wait we meant 2016. Oh it was delayed so 2017. Sorry we wrote 2018 wrong in the past articles so it will be here soon.
There is not one single official statement by either company on the future of the car.

Both include quotes from the executives themselves, most click bait is just statements with no quotes, and if these were made up quotes both companies would deny the news, as they would never allow words to be put in their mouths. When it's just statements companies say nothing because it's all speculation but quotes are definitely something they would go after if untrue. The dates in the autocar article were speculation at the time, same with the 2021 dates now as nothing is confirmed until something actually comes from the manufacturer.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-expected-2019

motortrend.com/news/report-subaru-brz-wont-go-away-after-current-generation/amp/

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[krayzie]

The 86/BRZ came out when Nov 2011? I say realistically expect this to be a planned 10 year run.

By 2021 and leading upto 2025, technology might be so far ahead then to not warrant making an old school sports car as re-education to the public like it did 10 years prior, or future regulations might forbid it to come to fruition. The current Toyota regime would have been retired as well, so a totally different direction may be in place then.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by dtbdan

Both include quotes from the executives themselves, most click bait is just statements with no quotes, and if these were made up quotes both companies would deny the news, as they would never allow words to be put in their mouths. When it's just statements companies say nothing because it's all speculation but quotes are definitely something they would go after if untrue. The dates in the autocar article were speculation at the time, same with the 2021 dates now as nothing is confirmed until something actually comes from the manufacturer.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-expected-2019

motortrend.com/news/report-subaru-brz-wont-go-away-after-current-generation/amp/

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Separate quotes without the full context are meaningless. Those are not official statements they are a website reporter's interpretation of some fragments of a statement. Not to mention that they are two years old and much may have changed since then.
People may believe such things all they wish but the track record of these sites being inaccurate leave me very, very skeptical. They should never, ever be used as facts or official statements.


LOL and do you really think the President of FHI gave an interview about the BRZ to Automotive News?


"Fuji Heavy Industries president Yasuyuki Yoshinaga confirmed a second-generation BRZ to Automotive News in a recent interview."

[dtbdan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Separate quotes without the full context are meaningless. Those are not official statements they are a website reporter's interpretation of some fragments of a statement. Not to mention that they are two years old and much may have changed since then.
People may believe such things all they wish but the track record of these sites being inaccurate leave me very, very skeptical. They should never, ever be used as facts or official statements.

It's the best we have to go off of. Better than trying to infer from the website not stating a 2019 model year.

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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Why some people think the BRZ and Miata need to follow the standard 5 year refresh cycle is beyond me.

The thing is that Subaru discontinued the RA Racing that was used in the Gazoo 86/BRZ one-make races. Will they stop participating in the races, will these races be discontinued overall or will the entire car be discontinued? We don't know yet ...


Personally, I would prefer this car to be treated as an one-off car than trying to extend its production for much more years. Subaru has by all intents and purposes treated essentially this car as a one-off car (low volume and sales expectations, no marketing, RWD in a all-AWD line-up etc). Maybe Toyota had different intensions, but for the time it looks to be focused on a successful release of the new Supra.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by dtbdan

It's the best we have to go off of. Better than trying to infer from the website not stating a 2019 model year.

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Nah. Their guesses are no better that our guesses. Can be worse since they are trying to get clicks to earn money so need something that people want to actually read be it accurate or not.

[Azzudien]

End production, Store car for 40 years, sell for lots of money.
I mean Datsun 280Z's from the late 70's are selling for over $30,000 now

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by dtbdan

It's the best we have to go off of. Better than trying to infer from the website not stating a 2019 model year.

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Let's be more precise... Those articles were written in 2016 and 2014 without knowledge of the significant drop-off in volume. If you read the 2016 article, it was stated that there would be a next generation 86. There is a next generation Toyota sports car -- it's called the Supra!!!! The statement was also made that the next generation would be predicated on good sales volume, something that hasn't occurred. That was the statement by the executive.

So if that is the best we have to go off of, then it only supports the contention based on things like the website, lack of improvements in the current 86 models, lack of developmental models, etc. If you were an auto exec would you ever say that a model would be discontinued before the official announcement? You'd always say that a new model is in development as long as it continues to sell...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Let's be more precise... Those articles were written in 2016 and 2014 without knowledge of the significant drop-off in volume. If you read the 2016 article, it was stated that there would be a next generation 86. There is a next generation Toyota sports car -- it's called the Supra!!!! The statement was also made that the next generation would be predicated on good sales volume, something that hasn't occurred. That was the statement by the executive.

So if that is the best we have to go off of, then it only supports the contention based on things like the website, lack of improvements in the current 86 models, lack of developmental models, etc. If you were an auto exec would you ever say that a model would be discontinued before the official announcement? You'd always say that a new model is in development as long as it continues to sell...

Sales numbers only mean something if we know how many they planned and built. If they planned and built 1,000 and sold 10 then that would be bad. If they sold all 1,000 that would be on plan and good. We have no clue how many they made for the 18MY so can not say if the sales numbers are good or bad even if lower than prior years. They never went into this project looking for Corolla numbers and this years sales my be exactly what they forecast and built.
The Supra is not the next gen 86 it is in a totally different ballpark and not planned for the same market.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Sales numbers only mean something if we know how many they planned and built. If they planned and built 1,000 and sold 10 then that would be bad. If they sold all 1,000 that would be on plan and good. We have no clue how many they made for the 18MY so can not say if the sales numbers are good or bad even if lower than prior years. They never went into this project looking for Corolla numbers and this years sales my be exactly what they forecast and built.
The Supra is not the next gen 86 it is in a totally different ballpark and not planned for the same market.

This is just not true. If you've ever been through corporate ROI analyses, and I've been through hundreds of them, you have volumes based on either a growing brand or a specific product lifecycle. It is certainly not the former, and if it is the latter, then there will be an end based upon profitability/margin analysis. There is also the consideration of using limited capital for future development for increased corporate ROI's. So even if that product is profitable, if there is a better opportunity, you'll put that developmental capital into that new opportunity. It isn't a static analysis based upon just one specific product.

Your last statement about the Supra is also clearly not relevant to the statement that was made in the article. Your assumption that a next gen comment must be in the same "ballpark" as the current market is a very limited parochial perspective. From a corporate point of view, a new sports car, even if significantly more expensive, could well be the next generation of sports car in the truest sense. Remember that profit margins on the new Supra will probably be significantly higher than a lower priced, budget sports car. Also, from Toyota's perspective, they are foregoing the profit that Subaru makes on production, so it is even more likely that they will put their capital in other places.