FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[Zach3794]

Out of curiosity, would you be able to tell us how much flow you gained from doing the heads with the big valves and whatnot?

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Zach3794

Out of curiosity, would you be able to tell us how much flow you gained from doing the heads with the big valves and whatnot?

We typically don't share our flow bench numbers because they can be massively manipulated by the water level. We'll release dyno numbers soon but the head work is amazing. We did have to do extra machining to the valves themselves as they did not fit the factory seats on the intake side.

We need to do more testing with the oiling system to support the kinds of rpm we can now pull with our head work.

[gramicci101]

Are you doing multiple engines concurrently in case the one in the car doesn't play well?

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

We typically don't share our flow bench numbers because they can be massively manipulated by the water level. We'll release dyno numbers soon but the head work is amazing. We did have to do extra machining to the valves themselves as they did not fit the factory seats on the intake side.

We need to do more testing with the oiling system to support the kinds of rpm we can now pull with our head work.

Can you post percentage improvements?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[Zach3794]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

We typically don't share our flow bench numbers because they can be massively manipulated by the water level. We'll release dyno numbers soon but the head work is amazing. We did have to do extra machining to the valves themselves as they did not fit the factory seats on the intake side.

We need to do more testing with the oiling system to support the kinds of rpm we can now pull with our head work.

I guess that's the question now, is how to keep the oil flowing without resorting to a costly dry sump

[Element Tuning]

It's just part of the r&d process and we need to take what we know from the EJ race program, apply it here, and modify as required. There is just only so much you can do with a wet sump when pulling this many gs.

We'll release the dyno numbers on the heads where their benefit will be extremely obvious.

As for oil pressure we will make a few mods to this build and hope for the best. It won't solve an oil starvation issue but hopefully it will hold pressure in a straight line to 9k rpm.

[sato]

I just love when post like this come up... Community experts sharing their knowledge for the benefit of all. Great job, and keep us posted!

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by sato

I just love when post like this come up... Community experts sharing their knowledge for the benefit of all. Great job, and keep us posted!

Thanks. I'm just throwing it out there even though very few will set their car up with this much grip. If you do you'll most certainly benefit from our R&D.

Hopefully the car will be totally back together by next weekend and I'll start sharing what I find at very high rpm with regards to oil pressure. We will really need to see 80+ psi under dyno or street conditions or the rod bearings won't survive at "track" oil temps (400+ hp cars).. Typically under racing conditions we see as much as a 15 psi drop in oil pressure vs wah you would see at street or dyno temps. N.A. cars won't need this much oil pressure since the force exerted on the rod bearing's oil wedge won't be as severe.

People also question high viscosity oils but keep in mind that most oils drop a grade level once used or when they pass 220 degrees or so. Its called "shearing" and you really need to watch out for this with your zero weight oils as they tend to drop out of grade at high temps due to the chemistry of the oils required to have that viscosity. One of the only oils that stays in "grade" is Redline and it's why we use it for our EJ race engines and will also for the FA20 motors.

[Element Tuning]

Getting into the FRS BRZ oil pump.



As I've mentioned previously the FA20 motor is fitted with a newly designed 12mm oil pump gear compared to the 10 and 11 mm US EJ oil pumps. A Japanese model was offered with a 12mm pump gear but the case design was the older 10mm unit compared to the newer 11 mm designs we use on our EJ race engines. The biggest difference on these FA motors is the integration of the oil pump into the main timing cover and the fact that the oiling doesn't have to flow through the crank/rods first before oiling the heads like the EJ. On this motor you can see the oil feeds go directly to each head at the same time it feeds the mains and rods.

Now take a look at the difference between the EJ oil pressure bypass valve and the FA bypass valve.



It's totally different as the FA20 uses the shorter piston, shorter springs, dual springs, and even the cap provides a different level of preload. Now the bypass valve only controls the relief pressure it does not control the volume the oil pump is capable of delivering. We'll be making some modifications to the FA20 pump to see if we can successfully raise the oil pressure to a level we know will keep the oil wedge stable so we don't get rod to bearing to crank contact. Hopefully the pump has enough flow volume to maintain the higher oil pressure!

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Getting into the FRS BRZ oil pump.



As I've mentioned previously the FA20 motor is fitted with a newly designed 12mm oil pump gear compared to the 10 and 11 mm US EJ oil pumps. A Japanese model was offered with a 12mm pump gear but the case design was the older 10mm unit compared to the newer 11 mm designs we use on our EJ race engines. The biggest difference on these FA motors is the integration of the oil pump into the main timing cover and the fact that the oiling doesn't have to flow through the crank/rods first before oiling the heads like the EJ. On this motor you can see the oil feeds go directly to each head at the same time it feeds the mains and rods.

Now take a look at the difference between the EJ oil pressure bypass valve and the FA bypass valve.



It's totally different as the FA20 uses the shorter piston, shorter springs, dual springs, and even the cap provides a different level of preload. Now the bypass valve only controls the relief pressure it does not control the volume the oil pump is capable of delivering. We'll be making some modifications to the FA20 pump to see if we can successfully raise the oil pressure to a level we know will keep the oil wedge stable so we don't get rod to bearing to crank contact. Hopefully the pump has enough flow volume to maintain the higher oil pressure!

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

I'm very curious how you're going to raise the oil pressure. The castings look smooth so I don't see gaining any flow from porting. And as you said, the spring doesn't set the operating pressure. Is there any chance the FA20T uses a wider pump that can deliver more flow?

Either way, thanks for another excellent post. I look forward to the rest of your build.

[Element Tuning]

The only way we will be able to raise pressure is if there is excess pump flow available. We won't know if it will work until we run it. Unfortunately on the FA20 unlike the EJ there is no easy way to access the oil pump once the timing cover is installed.

I almost feel like Subaru did an "oops" and that second spring was a means to restrict the bypass without resorting to using preload like they do with the EJ pump spring.

I have a few tricks up my sleeve if this doesn't help but

[350matt]

Have you had to do any mods to the valvetrain other than heavier springs?

as the followers look the same as the camry V6 ones that have a tendency to jump out of place with high rpm

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by 350matt

Have you had to do any mods to the valvetrain other than heavier springs?

as the followers look the same as the camry V6 ones that have a tendency to jump out of place with high rpm

No just the springs to get a little more seat pressure to deal with boost and RPM along with the bigger valves and valve job. We run our own valve clearances but honestly it all looks solid for 9k RPM.

[Panda Mao]

nuuuuuuuuuuuuu poor FRS/BRZ R.I.P