Bang for the buck - upgrades

[CBR600RR]

The E85 tune is showing gains of 34HP for about $1000-$1200

160WHP baseline to 194WHP with tune and E85 gas

[BAE]

Ref the discussion earlier in this thread about wether to keep the car stock or not. Interesting to read Randy Pobst's impressions in the Motortrend test after tracking the car several laps on Laguna Seca. In short; faboulous car! Needs more grip, better brake pads and more power

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=101

[ARK FT86]

In regards to best bang for the buck, you should consider customer service, warranty, after-service, R&D, and quality. These are all expenses that are incorporated into every individual product.

ie: Some coilover system may be more expensive than others, but the longevity, customer support, and quality may make up for the money saved getting a cheaper quality unit with no warranty or support.

[BAE]

Originally Posted by ARK FT86

In regards to best bang for the buck, you should consider customer service, warranty, after-service, R&D, and quality. These are all expenses that are incorporated into every individual product.

ie: Some coilover system may be more expensive than others, but the longevity, customer support, and quality may make up for the money saved getting a cheaper quality unit with no warranty or support.

I fully agree with you! Normally I would like to pay extra to get quality. My idea with the $/hp numbers is to play with it on more generic level. Headers vs. catback. FI vs. NA tuning. ECU tune vs. Exhaust. As mentioned earlier in this thread it is a ton of other factors that influence our choices. I will attempt to build this list. How you use it is up to you.

[BAE]

Originally Posted by CBR600RR

The E85 tune is showing gains of 34HP for about $1000-$1200

160WHP baseline to 194WHP with tune and E85 gas

Thanks! This is a good one. The MSRP is 950 for stage 1. I am not sure if you have to add $350 for the E85 tune, but you will probably get it cheaper than 950 later also after the group buy. I will use your 1200. I will update the table. If you have bought the stage 1 package for the first 11 whp on 93 and buy the E85 tune you get +23 whp for $350. Good deal. And you save fuel cost (at least where I live) and the environment, as long you have access to E85. Doesn't smell very good though.

Also added some Agency Power parts.

[BAE]

First post updated with more exhaust systems and a supercharger

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by BAE

Thanks! This is a good one. The MSRP is 950 for stage 1. I am not sure if you have to add $350 for the E85 tune, but you will probably get it cheaper than 950 later also after the group buy. I will use your 1200. I will update the table. If you have bought the stage 1 package for the first 11 whp on 93 and buy the E85 tune you get +23 whp for $350. Good deal. And you save fuel cost (at least where I live) and the environment, as long you have access to E85. Doesn't smell very good though.

Also added some Agency Power parts.

Thanks for adding me to the list..

As time goes on other vendors will appear with flashes but I have absolutely no plans on lower the price or doing another group buy.

Thanks

John

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by BAE

I am interested in a list that give you cost/horsepower so it is easier to decide which upgrades to do next. I guess $ and Hp needs to be backed up with links to vendor pages and dyno test if requested.

Data so far:

Seems like this list would be a lot more useful with real world numbers, vs manufacturer claims. It's hard to take something seriously that claims 11 hp for a crank pulley, not to mention that when the HP # isn't accurate, it completely throws off the whole $ / HP ratio.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Visconti

As time goes on other vendors will appear with flashes but I have absolutely no plans on lower the price or doing another group buy.

Why not?

[dabocx]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Why not?

Its a mountain of work and hes put more R&D than anyone else.

Its well worth the cost

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by dabocx

Its a mountain of work and hes put more R&D than anyone else.

Its well worth the cost

Worth $700 via a group buy, sure. But when other vendors come offering tunes with just as much R&D behind them at a lesser price point, then Visconti will likely not be competitive anymore at $950. It's easy to say that you won't budge on price or do more group buys when you're the first to market and you've got a large customer base already, but these cars are only entering their fourth month of existence in the US, so competition of equal quality is just a matter of time. That's just how competitive free markets work. It's a very bold statement to make and to me it seems more out of personal pride than anything related to the product(s).

Not trying to bash his tune or the price point, I'm just surprised that he would say that so early on in the game.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Worth $700 via a group buy, sure. But when other vendors come offering tunes with just as much R&D behind them at a lesser price point, then Visconti will likely not be competitive anymore at $950. It's easy to say that you won't budge on price or do more group buys when you're the first to market and you've got a large customer base already, but these cars are only entering their fourth month of existence in the US, so competition of equal quality is just a matter of time. That's just how competitive free markets work. It's a very bold statement to make and to me it seems more out of personal pride than anything related to the product(s).

Not trying to bash his tune or the price point, I'm just surprised that he would say that so early on in the game.

I don't want people to be mislead by other peoples comments.

It's not personal pride it's just the truth.

If someone wants to buy a flash from some else because it's 50-200 bucks cheaper that's fine.

I'm just going to continue to do my thing - which is figuring out how to make this car the best it can be.

John

[BAE]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

Seems like this list would be a lot more useful with real world numbers, vs manufacturer claims. It's hard to take something seriously that claims 11 hp for a crank pulley, not to mention that when the HP # isn't accurate, it completely throws off the whole $ / HP ratio.

I think many of the manufacturer numbers are honest. Reputation is very important in this business. But ideally we should have all dyno numbers from a 3. party like Speed Hunters. At least when we get more data you have a better basis to question numbers that seem to be high. I would love Perrin to dyno their 1.1 lbs Pulley to see if they get he same numbers as the 1.1 lbs Agency Power pulley..

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Visconti

I don't want people to be mislead by other peoples comments.

It's not personal pride it's just the truth.

If someone wants to buy a flash from some else because it's 50-200 bucks cheaper that's fine.

I'm just going to continue to do my thing - which is figuring out how to make this car the best it can be.

John

That's cool, thanks for clarifying.

It just bothers me because there is such a long wait list for ordering these cars and many folks don't even have their pre-ordered cars yet. To deny these patient to-be 86 owners the same great deal on a tune group buy that you offered the relatively small group that already have their cars seems a bit unfair.

I appreciate tuners in other large markets, like APR, who do group buys and sales regularly, almost every season, and remain profitable.