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View Poll Results: How many 86 owners are planning on getting the Supra?
I'm definitely getting one 32 12.17%
I might get one if they offer a MT 100 38.02%
No, not me. 131 49.81%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-06-2019, 07:56 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by gymratter View Post
yup, as well as many other automarkers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission
And that is just that tranny. The list of others is massive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
Sure but I would like to point out the ZF transmission isn't used in the Yaris.
Aisin (or one of it's many subdivisions) has the Asian market pretty much wrapped up. No doubt ZF would like to break into that market but so far they are still focusing on North America.

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Originally Posted by krayzie View Post
As if BMW actually build its own slush boxes for its production cars?



As if it doesn't build other BMWs there.
Nobody builds their own transmissions. Car manufacturers make very few parts anymore. They buy them from a relatively small pool of parts manufacturers or they have a sub division that makes them for themselves and any other company that will pay. Car companies are pretty much assembly only now.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:31 AM   #590
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Nobody builds their own transmissions. Car manufacturers make very few parts anymore. They buy them from a relatively small pool of parts manufacturers or they have a sub division that makes them for themselves and any other company that will pay. Car companies are pretty much assembly only now.
Yup! Pretty easy to figure out when all cars of all makes suddenly would have the same tech like push button start or keyless entry, similar drivetrain tech and components, etc.

It's basically like Essilor/Luxoticca probably made your glasses regardless of design and branding on the outside.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:59 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Nobody builds their own transmissions.
Mercedes would like a word.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:26 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrg666 View Post
There are so many misconceptions and lies about the new Supra. Also check this out.

- It is not a BMW factory building both cars
- Z4 and Supra design and tests were done independently after joint platform design.
- Toyota did not simply take an existing BMW engine. The engine was completely redesigned jointly matching Toyota reliability standards
- The 8-speed transmission is not even BMW
so on ....
It's been known for a while that Magna Steyr is building both cars. No shock there, and to me, means very little. (My Cayman was built by Valmet, in Finland. I would have preferred a German build but I'm not the least bit concerned about it having any sort of effect on my car's build quality) But most of the car is built of BMW designed parts (there's a reason they have BMW part numbers) and most of the components are laid out like in a BMW, and that usually means it's a pain in the ass to work on.

Intentionally detuning the engine, and saddling it solely with an slushbox...sucks.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:30 AM   #593
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Originally Posted by krayzie View Post
Yup! Pretty easy to figure out when all cars of all makes suddenly would have the same tech like push button start or keyless entry, similar drivetrain tech and components, etc.

It's basically like Essilor/Luxoticca probably made your glasses regardless of design and branding on the outside.
Back when I started in the industry many plants did indeed make their own parts in sub shops on site. That didn't make business sense mostly due to the wages the workers received so those parts or sub assemblies (modules) were farmed out to parts manufacturers. The whole assemblies could be built off site by somebody else (at a much lower cost) and just bolted on at the car plant.
The catch was that the car companies wanted these parts cheaper and cheaper every year. So in order to save costs the parts companies started farming out even smaller sub assemblies. When I started at Siemans in 1990 we made the HVAC motors for about 6 different car brands ranging from Ford to Porsche. At that time we made the whole motor. We stamped and notched the cases from sheet, cut and machined the shafts, assembled and wound the armature and even made the wiring harness connectors and wires. This still cost too much so gradually over time all those things got farmed out to even smaller manufacturers. By the time it closed up in 1998 it had gone from a huge manufacturing operation to a relatively small assembly plant. Even then it was too costly so the smaller yet places stole the contracts.
Then 2008 came along and kicked the living shit out of the parts industry. Many, many of these smaller places just did not have the diversification to survive and closed up so things went from thousands of suppliers to a couple of hundred. When the recovery came along all that was left was a handful of very large companies with several different divisions making parts for just about every car company. I don't see the industry ever going back to independent suppliers for each company.

The relevance of all that babbling to the conversation here is that it doesn't really matter who or where something is assembled most of the parts come from pretty much the same places anyway. Yes, there is a distinct division between the European and Asian manufacturers but that line is getting blurred more and more every year as each works to break into the other's market.
Oh and of the top twenty parts companies the American owned ones barely placed in the "Also Ran" category since they were the smaller payers and 2008 hit them the hardest.

DAMNIT we dropped 3 places last year!
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:36 AM   #594
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
And that is just that tranny. The list of others is massive.


Aisin (or one of it's many subdivisions) has the Asian market pretty much wrapped up. No doubt ZF would like to break into that market but so far they are still focusing on North America.


Nobody builds their own transmissions. Car manufacturers make very few parts anymore. They buy them from a relatively small pool of parts manufacturers or they have a sub division that makes them for themselves and any other company that will pay. Car companies are pretty much assembly only now.
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Mercedes would like a word.
Not at the assembly plant level they wouldn't.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:41 AM   #595
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
It's been known for a while that Magna Steyr is building both cars. No shock there, and to me, means very little. (My Cayman was built by Valmet, in Finland. I would have preferred a German build but I'm not the least bit concerned about it having any sort of effect on my car's build quality) But most of the car is built of BMW designed parts (there's a reason they have BMW part numbers) and most of the components are laid out like in a BMW, and that usually means it's a pain in the ass to work on.

Intentionally detuning the engine, and saddling it solely with an slushbox...sucks.
Yep. The physical location of the plant means nothing. The processes and QC used in Germany work just as well in Finland, USA, Brazil, China or the Moon if that is where the plant is located. The myth that other locations have worse quality comes from the other industries that are not controlled as well. Any large international company will apply the exact same standards everywhere.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:12 AM   #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post

Intentionally detuning the engine, and saddling it solely with an slushbox...sucks.
On the glass half full viewpoint:

The engine is easily able to handle loads more power and since it is turbocharged you can add 40+ more hp for less than ~$400 with a simple boost module.

While a "slushbox" it is one of the best (if not THE BEST) slushbox in the business that changes gears as quick as some dual clutch trannys.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:18 AM   #597
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Originally Posted by tennisfreak View Post
On the glass half full viewpoint:

The engine is easily able to handle loads more power and since it is turbocharged you can add 40+ more hp for less than ~$400 with a simple boost module.

While a "slushbox" it is one of the best (if not THE BEST) slushbox in the business that changes gears as quick as some dual clutch trannys.
Pretty sure that anybody that thinks that tranny is a "slushbox" has never driven an actual slushbox.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:20 AM   #598
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Wink

Viewpoint taken.

However, I personally think it's nonsense to consider purchasing a $50k+ car and immediately voiding the factory warranty. Furthermore I think it's ridiculous to compliment a brand new car while basically admitting it needs more power.

Also the transmission is still inferior to Porsche's PDK, which in it's 718 iteration has been around for a while (and the 718 is it's supposed competition).

I admit the allure of just reflashing a turbo engine. Still silly to need to push that as an advantage for a new car. But going down that road...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Audi TT-RS. If you want to talk about out of the gate turbo engine reflashes that car's a straight up beast
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:29 AM   #599
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Viewpoint taken.

However, I personally think it's nonsense to consider purchasing a $50k+ car and immediately voiding the factory warranty. Furthermore I think it's ridiculous to compliment a brand new car while basically admitting it needs more power.

Also the transmission is still inferior to Porsche's PDK, which in it's 718 iteration has been around for a while (and the 718 is it's supposed competition).

I admit the allure of just reflashing a turbo engine. Still silly to need to push that as an advantage for a new car. But going down that road...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Audi TT-RS. If you want to talk about out of the gate turbo engine reflashes that car's a straight up beast
Meh. Nobody here knows how much more power it needs or how good the tranny is. They are all just bench racers at this point since none have even sat in one much less drove it (other than maybe Guff).
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:36 AM   #600
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Yep. The physical location of the plant means nothing. The processes and QC used in Germany work just as well in Finland, USA, Brazil, China or the Moon if that is where the plant is located. The myth that other locations have worse quality comes from the other industries that are not controlled as well. Any large international company will apply the exact same standards everywhere.
Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that the quality of a car built in Mexico is going to be the same quality is a car built in Japan. "Quality Control" can only take you so far.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:01 AM   #601
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Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that the quality of a car built in Mexico is going to be the same quality is a car built in Japan. "Quality Control" can only take you so far.
Why? If they meet the same requirements you get the same product.
A Porsche built to Porsche standards will be the same if built in Mexico or Germany. A Dodge Colt built to Dodge Colt standards will be the same if built in Mexico or Germany. Mexico manufacturing gained it's reputation because they built the cheap stuff stuff like the Dodge Colt. It is an unrealistic and very outdated reputation but will be the bias of many Americans forever. Those revolutionary automotive management systems that were developed in Japan back in the 60s are standard for any large company worldwide now. Our plants in Mexico are state of the art with all the same requirements as the ones in Germany, Japan or the USA. Get the picture of poor, uneducated, Juan, slapping parts together in an adobe hut for $5 a day out of your head and come into 2019.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:04 AM   #602
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Why? If they meet the same requirements you get the same product.
A Porsche built to Porsche standards will be the same if built in Mexico or Germany. A Dodge Colt built to Dodge Colt standards will be the same if built in Mexico or Germany. Mexico manufacturing gained it's reputation because they built the cheap stuff stuff like the Dodge Colt. It is an unrealistic and very outdated reputation but will be the bias of many Americans forever. Those revolutionary automotive management systems that were developed in Japan back in the 60s are standard for any large company worldwide now. Our plants in Mexico are state of the art with all the same requirements as the ones in Germany, Japan or the USA. Get the picture of poor, uneducated, Juan, slapping parts together in an adobe hut for $5 a day out of your head and come into 2019.

I believe all the Dodge Hemi engines are built in Mexico. I know mine were.
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