Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

The lower power is a big deficit to overcome for many.

??? Existence of 4-cylinder model does not affect the power output of the 6-cylinder model...

It will be interesting to see how they compare, but it wouldn't be surprising to see the supra and Camaro be very alike numbers wise. If you get the upgraded Camaro packages I'd almost say it would outperform the 4 cylinder supra.

And if you get the ZL1 Camaro it will outperform the 6-cylinder Supra at the same price. I think it's safe to say that at any given price point, the Camaro is going to "outperform" the Toyota (86, 4cyl Supra, 6cyl Supra) in every instance. The existence of a 4 cylinder Supra doesn't change that.
Still, some of us would rather have a smaller, lighter-weight, shorter-wheelbase sports car even if it is slower vs. a much more powerful Camaro at the same price point.
For sure I would MUCH rather have:
FT86 >> 4 or 6 cylinder Camaro or Mustang
4-cylinder Supra >> V8 Camaro or Mustang
6-cylinder Supra >> Supercharged V8 Camaro or Mustang

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ZDan

And if you get the ZL1 Camaro it will outperform the 6-cylinder Supra at the same price. I think it's safe to say that at any given price point, the Camaro is going to "outperform" the Toyota (86, 4cyl Supra, 6cyl Supra) in every instance. The existence of a 4 cylinder Supra doesn't change that.
Still, some of us would rather have a smaller, lighter-weight, shorter-wheelbase sports car even if it is slower vs. a much more powerful Camaro at the same price point.
For sure I would MUCH rather have:
FT86 >> 4 or 6 cylinder Camaro or Mustang
4-cylinder Supra >> V8 Camaro or Mustang
6-cylinder Supra >> Supercharged V8 Camaro or Mustang

Whether I agree with you on that or not, the deal breaker for me is I'd rather have a Camaro designed and built by GM, or a Mustang designed and built by Ford than a "Supra" designed and built by BMW.

Now if Toyota had designed and built it, we'd be a little closer.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by ZDan

??? Existence of 4-cylinder model does not affect the power output of the 6-cylinder model...

And if you get the ZL1 Camaro it will outperform the 6-cylinder Supra at the same price. I think it's safe to say that at any given price point, the Camaro is going to "outperform" the Toyota (86, 4cyl Supra, 6cyl Supra) in every instance. The existence of a 4 cylinder Supra doesn't change that.
Still, some of us would rather have a smaller, lighter-weight, shorter-wheelbase sports car even if it is slower vs. a much more powerful Camaro at the same price point.
For sure I would MUCH rather have:
FT86 >> 4 or 6 cylinder Camaro or Mustang
4-cylinder Supra >> V8 Camaro or Mustang
6-cylinder Supra >> Supercharged V8 Camaro or Mustang

It doesn't affect the inline six models power. What it does do is take a marquee car and kind of water it down. If the gtr came in a 4 cylinder model it would be a similar scenario.

Your comparison and desires are your own.... but jfc expand your horizons. The new supra hasn't even been released yet and you say you'd rather have it over proven platforms.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Whether I agree with you on that or not, the deal breaker for me is I'd rather have a Camaro designed and built by GM, or a Mustang designed and built by Ford than a "Supra" designed and built by BMW.

Now if Toyota had designed and built it, we'd be a little closer.

Oh, are you one of those that still thinks the 86 was 100% designed and built by Subaru? I'd suggest you look into the development origins and history of both the 86 and the Supra, and note the parts content on the 86 is very nearly 50/50 Toyota/Subaru. If anything, the Supra will likely be more Toyota centric design and content wise than the 86 was based on reports.

The real question you should be asking yourself is whether you'd prefer having no Supra or 86 at all because of brand snobbery. Personally I'm happy to have Toyota make cars for enthusiasts even though they know in the long run it will cost them more money then they will make. If cooperation with other enthusiast brands makes it possible, then I'm down.

Enjoy your two ton led sled with chinese 'domestic' parts tho.

[Rampage]

One week to go.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

It doesn't affect the inline six models power. What it does do is take a marquee car and kind of water it down. If the gtr came in a 4 cylinder model it would be a similar scenario.

Well, the GTR is an enormous and heavy car. But still, I wouldn't see a 4-cylinder GTR junior as a necessarily bad idea...

Your comparison and desires are your own.... but jfc expand your horizons. The new supra hasn't even been released yet and you say you'd rather have it over proven platforms.

It is possible to be somewhat aware about the kinds of things one likes and to pretty well *know* these things in advance. I've been around new Mustangs and Camaros on the street and at the track for a while now, and I know they are not for me. I just like sitting lower in much smaller, shorter-wheelbase, lower-beltline cars. And I don't like being in or driving giant bricklike behemoths. No matter how "proven" they are. Not for me...

[gymratter]

SF member is keeps claiming the 4 banger will be called Celica Supra.

Originally Posted by chevydude

The four will be badged as a Celica-Supra. The 2jz encouragement/acknowledgement is still anyone's guess.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Oh, are you one of those that still thinks the 86 was 100% designed and built by Subaru? I'd suggest you look into the development origins and history of both the 86 and the Supra, and note the parts content on the 86 is very nearly 50/50 Toyota/Subaru. If anything, the Supra will likely be more Toyota centric design and content wise than the 86 was based on reports.

Not at all, I know exactly what I bought and would not have bought a 100% Subaru car. In fact, most of the parts of the 86 I'm unhappy with are Subaru (for example paint quality) that I believe would be different if it had been fully built or designed by Toyota and is the reason I wouldn't buy a second one unless things changed a bit.

From what I can see of the new Supra it should be labeled "coachwork by Toyota" but the heart of the car (the drivetrain, interior, etc) is strictly BMW with a little tweaking.

I may be wrong about the Supra design because admittedly I don't care for the car in whole, BMW/Toyota or somewhere in-between, so I haven't delved into the details.

That said, my assessment (which is really just my opinion, and preference) stands. I'll take the Camaro, you can have your Supra and we'll meet up for a good German beer somewhere.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Well, the GTR is an enormous and heavy car. But still, I wouldn't see a 4-cylinder GTR junior as a necessarily bad idea...



It is possible to be somewhat aware about the kinds of things one likes and to pretty well *know* these things in advance. I've been around new Mustangs and Camaros on the street and at the track for a while now, and I know they are not for me. I just like sitting lower in much smaller, shorter-wheelbase, lower-beltline cars. And I don't like being in or driving giant bricklike behemoths. No matter how "proven" they are. Not for me...

If you ever get a chance to drive a sixth gen + Camaro or newer mustang you'd be surprised. I'm willing to bet, when driven close to a supra, actual position, visibility, experience.... will be quite similar.

The point I was making was on the GTR was missed I believe. It's a marquee car with one drivetrain option (albeit in different levels of tune), having a 4 cylinder option for the supra makes it less "special" to some. I can see their point. It's a dual edge there, make it exclusive and have a marquee or make it available to more and dilute the name by giving it a cheaper option.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by gymratter

SF member is keeps claiming the 4 banger will be called Celica Supra.

I guess that's one way of reviving the celica name....

[WolfpackS2k]

Obviously will hold reservations until Supra is out, but...

I'll gladly spot the Camaro a few hundred pounds since it has a manual transmission and naturally aspirated engine.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

If you ever get a chance to drive a sixth gen + Camaro or newer mustang you'd be surprised. I'm willing to bet, when driven close to a supra, actual position, visibility, experience.... will be quite similar.

The point I was making was on the GTR was missed I believe. It's a marquee car with one drivetrain option (albeit in different levels of tune), having a 4 cylinder option for the supra makes it less "special" to some. I can see their point. It's a dual edge there, make it exclusive and have a marquee or make it available to more and dilute the name by giving it a cheaper option.

You do realize the original supra always had a base v6 model right? Not sure how the new 4cylinder cheapens the brand but the old v6 base didn't?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by raven1231

You do realize the original supra always had a base v6 model right? Not sure how the new 4cylinder cheapens the brand but the old v6 base didn't?

Absolutely. That's also last generation where this is an all new platform years apart from that.

Although the supra was not a V6....

[Sasquachulator]

Gearheads always thinks having a "lesser" version cheapens the car.

Just like the American pony cars ended up getting 4 banger base models. "omg no V8 its cheapened!"

Its nice to have the larger selection (opens to a wider audience, and lowers the price of entry) for the sake of the survival of the car. Gearheads may think its sacrilegious to provide such an offering as it goes against what they know of the car during its lifetime.

To me its just "the right version" vs the "wrong version". If I got a pony car, it has to have the V8. Sure the lower ones may be powerful enough, capable enough, etc but it loses the character of "the pony car".

Same as the luxury brands. 4 banger entry lux sport sedans was sacrilegious, now everyones doing it and its weird NOT to have one.
times change, this is how things are.

Theres choice now, if you don't like the choice, get the one that you find ideal. In the case of the Supra, i'd get the I6 version. Not because of "legacy" or whatever garbage buzzword you think the car has to adhere to, its more that I think that's the "right" version of the car to get.