NA Motor Can Handle 350 Crank HP?

[funwheeldrive]

RIP to your transmission bro

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Not another one of these threads

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by sxlx

Specs:
2013 Scion FRS w/ 70k miles

Goal:
-Achieve 280-300 wheel horsepower without building or upgrading the motor
-Intentions of NO track time, spirited daily driving, racing every now and then
-Currently at 70k miles, would most likely install the kit at 80k miles... Need the car to be reliable and last at least 150k miles

Background:
-Working with my local tuning shop in Northern VA, PTuning
-Budget: 7-8k
-Cannot install myself, need to pay for labor

Questions:
1. Should I go Super Charger route or Turbo?
2.Turbo = PTuning, SC = Edelbrock?
3. Flex Fuel necessary for contribution of 350 crank?
4. UEL / EL Catless necessary for contribution of 350 crank? (Emissions is big in northern VA)
5. Will my car be able to withstand this up until 150k miles? Realistically, when would it blow?

Didn't need to post it all over the forum, the Forced induction forum would've and will help you . Someone already answered your question pretty well anyway. You have to sacrifice some reliability.....

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by sxlx

So I'm looking to get 280-300 wheel horsepower. Is that optimal for stock internals or do I need to tone it down? Goal is speed and longevity. I want it to handle like a Porsche and have the power of a Mustang GT. Ofc it won't be as fast, but I want it to at least be faster than a 370z nismo stock since power to weight ratio.

Hello sxlx and welcome to our fine forum...

You may wish to reassess your goals of speed and longevity. It seems with this engine .. you should pick one.

This car will never be able to handle as well as a well driven Porsche, nor will this car (with the FA20 engine) be able to beat a higher end Mustang on the straights.

How about a relatively mild supercharger and a good set of tires ..


humfrz

[agill]

Originally Posted by sxlx

I did talk to them. I discussed it with them in the shop today. They're asking for 11,000 with some other minor things. It is just not optimal for me to spend that much for a turbo. Plus I'd prefer naturally aspirated anyway. I just want to know if the FA20 stock internals can handle a supercharger that pushes 350 crank / 300 wheel.

Not to be an ahole but I have two cents on this. First, you said you prefer NA but you’re looking for a super charger, doesn’t make sense, sounds like you want a naturally aspirated engine with a super charger. Two, NA from what I’ve seen, I think with e85 you could get mid 200s wheel. As for FI, a ton of cars push 7-10 pounds of boost without issues, it really depends on the tune on how you treat the car imo, supporting mods, if it’s dogged/tracked, etc. I’ve also seen cars push 400+ wheel on stock internals and I am relatively certain a couple companies have pushed 500+ on 20+ pounds of boost on stock internals for a “relatively” long time. Really comes down to tune, you could run a car NA and blow it at 230 wheel with a bad tune and keep a car going for 20k miles with 350+ on boost with a good one as long as it’s treated properly. Regardless, 300 wheel seems more than reasonable, and I’d do some research on FI applications, tons on this site, but it will cost at least 8-10k, maybe a little less if you diy, no matter which way you go. Godspeed whatever you decide, and best of luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by sxlx

Specs:
2013 Scion FRS w/ 70k miles

Goal:
-Achieve 280-300 wheel horsepower without building or upgrading the motor
-Intentions of NO track time, spirited daily driving, racing every now and then
-Currently at 70k miles, would most likely install the kit at 80k miles... Need the car to be reliable and last at least 150k miles

Background:
-Working with my local tuning shop in Northern VA, PTuning
-Budget: 7-8k
-Cannot install myself, need to pay for labor

Questions:
1. Should I go Super Charger route or Turbo?
2.Turbo = PTuning, SC = Edelbrock?
3. Flex Fuel necessary for contribution of 350 crank?
4. UEL / EL Catless necessary for contribution of 350 crank? (Emissions is big in northern VA)
5. Will my car be able to withstand this up until 150k miles? Realistically, when would it blow?

Ptuning is local to you, got to them for a turbo setup. If there's any issues, they are right there.

[sxlx]

Originally Posted by Hags86

In my view the answer is no, not reliably. Bent all 4 rods at 240 rwkw (320whp) after 7,000km.

It's a sh*!load of fun to drive though.

What's your set up now then?

[sxlx]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Hello sxlx and welcome to our fine forum...

You may wish to reassess your goals of speed and longevity. It seems with this engine .. you should pick one.

This car will never be able to handle as well as a well driven Porsche, nor will this car (with the FA20 engine) be able to beat a higher end Mustang on the straights.

How about a relatively mild supercharger and a good set of tires ..


humfrz

Define relatively mild supercharger in horsepower. Rn I think my car has some Eagle Sports A/S (bought pre-owned) with good tread. So, initially I was about to sign to buy a 370z but I realized I like the 86 as a car way better. It's just this power that got me clinically depressed. I think I'm power hungry. I drove an STi and it felt slow to me. I felt when I was driving a Mustang GT it wasnt overly fast but wasn't slow.. It was like the perfect pass-a-retard speed here in VA.

[sxlx]

Originally Posted by agill

Not to be an ahole but I have two cents on this. First, you said you prefer NA but you’re looking for a super charger, doesn’t make sense, sounds like you want a naturally aspirated engine with a super charger. Two, NA from what I’ve seen, I think with e85 you could get mid 200s wheel. As for FI, a ton of cars push 7-10 pounds of boost without issues, it really depends on the tune on how you treat the car imo, supporting mods, if it’s dogged/tracked, etc. I’ve also seen cars push 400+ wheel on stock internals and I am relatively certain a couple companies have pushed 500+ on 20+ pounds of boost on stock internals for a “relatively” long time. Really comes down to tune, you could run a car NA and blow it at 230 wheel with a bad tune and keep a car going for 20k miles with 350+ on boost with a good one as long as it’s treated properly. Regardless, 300 wheel seems more than reasonable, and I’d do some research on FI applications, tons on this site, but it will cost at least 8-10k, maybe a little less if you diy, no matter which way you go. Godspeed whatever you decide, and best of luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's more reliable? Supercharger or Turbo? I just daily drive my car and drive spiritedly. I pretty much shift pretty high RPM atm because of the lack of power. I never hold it at a high RPM for more than a couple seconds.. Also I'm looking to just make a little more power than a 370z. 370z comes 332 hp but weighs more than a 86. So I want to make 350 crank, aka 300 wheel. Also by NA, I meant stock internals.

[sxlx]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Ptuning is local to you, got to them for a turbo setup. If there's any issues, they are right there.

My only thing is, if I go PTuning turbo for around 10 grand. I know it's meant for the car to blow at any moment.. The only thing holding me back is spending that 10 grand and having to order a NEW FA20 and do a motor swap.... etc. How much money would that be usually for a engine swap? (labor. Motor not included)

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by sxlx

NA Motor Can Handle 350 Crank HP?

Originally Posted by sxlx

1. Should I go Super Charger route or Turbo?

So which is it, NA or forced induction?

I think you just need to go to the shop with your $8K in cash, wave it around and say, "What will this get me?" Then just take what they install on your car and be happy with it since you won't know the difference anyway.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by sxlx

Define relatively mild supercharger in horsepower. Rn I think my car has some Eagle Sports A/S (bought pre-owned) with good tread. So, initially I was about to sign to buy a 370z but I realized I like the 86 as a car way better. It's just this power that got me clinically depressed. I think I'm power hungry. I drove an STi and it felt slow to me. I felt when I was driving a Mustang GT it wasnt overly fast but wasn't slow.. It was like the perfect pass-a-retard speed here in VA.

Oh, like an additional 90 plus whp.

Some easy reading:

https://www.drifted.com/frs-supercharger/


humfrz

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by sxlx

What's your set up now then?

I'm Australian based and proudly have a bunch of Australian designed and build aftermarket bits:
- I have a water to air intercooled turbo from Coyoda. Based on a GTX2863 turbo, bottom mount on cast iron headers
- MoTec ECU and Dash
- Holinger sequential dogbox
- e85 (with flex fuel)
- Bosch 1050cc port injectors
- all the supporting mods (bigger fuel pumps, clutch, oil coolers etc)

241rwkW on e85.

Just rebuilt the engine after the bent rods. Closed deck, Carillo rods and pistons, MLS gasket, studs, port and polish etc. Should get it back tomorrow with the new engine.

The car is daily driven with some track time. Now I have the stronger engine the big turbo will be the next upgrade (at a later date)

My understanding is that the rods are the weak link and low-end torque is the killer of rods.

It all depends on your definition of reliable. Plenty of cars our there on stock internals making similar power. But you only need a handful of failures to put a big hole in 'reliable'. I'd done my research, was well informed and was very confident my power goals on the small GTX2863 were inside the curve of 'safe' on the stock internals - but I was proven wrong.

[Lantanafrs2]

If reliability/cost are a concern, you may want to stay away from f.i. and buy a faster car. Another option is to buy a used 86 with f.i. already installed. Definitely cheaper