Nightmare from the Dealership

[Animal]

Hello FT86 Club,

I read the rules that I could see (first post), please let me know if I accidentally violate any of them.

In late June, I purchased my absolutely gorgeous GT86. I was in love the second I started her up. I still am, despite a number of issues I'm seeming to have both with the car, and the dealership I purchased it from.
I'd like to say I bought this car from a large dealership so I was a little more lenient with the inspection. I didn't outright just hop in and go THIS ONE! I checked fluids, hoses, how she felt on the road. (Couldn't push it too hard sadly, which would have uncovered an issue.)


The first issue I had was a check engine light on my way to work. I was driving in 3rd at about 3000 RPMs. Wasn't pushing it, was pretty steady speed. I managed to catch the check engine light literally right as it came on. I pulled over, let it sit in neutral trying to see if I could feel or hear anything. I shut it off, waited a few minutes, started it back up. The light was still on. I drove it straight to the dealership and asked them what was up. The first week with the car and it's throwing a code. Tech goes out and runs the scan, no light, no code. He checks old codes and sees an engine misfire code. They tell me it's from the spark plugs. Saying they should have been changed at 60K. (I bought the car with 64K). They replace the plugs... Honestly feel like they only replaced the one, since they left the empty box in the engine bay.

Second issue... Pretty bad oil leak. Asked them to check it out (very slow drip, not something you'd notice unless you went under the car. They went under and found an aftermarket Greddy plug that was not threaded properly. They replaced it with an OEM plug and changed my oil. Here is where I segway into my current issue... They overfilled the oil by almost 2 quarts. (Dealerships don't take this accusation well at all... Haha) I put about 400 miles on the car without thinking to check the oil. (I'm not a moron with cars, I, however, don't check my fluids while I fill up like I probably should at this point.) I noticed loud ticking coming from the drivers' side (I think this is cylinders 2 and 4.) I took it back to the dealer, they said this sound was normal, yet they're going to put in a claim to Scion for a replacement high-pressure fuel pump. (Nothing wrong, but replacing a part... Mkay)

Finally, my transmission... I asked the dealership to check out the transmission because it was grinding from 5th to 6th, and from 6th to 5th to 4th if you're shifting while pushing the car. This is NOT from poor clutch work from the driver! Just to prove I wasn't coming off the clutch too early, I left it in while at 6K shifting from 5th to 6th, I could feel it mesh like complete crap while the clutch was fully in. Now when I went over the dash cam footage, the tech decided that shifts from 3 to 6 seconds were a normal shifting scenario. I could hear the engine drop all the way back to idle and then rev back up to match the wheels. They tested this twice not finding an issue.

So, now that I've got my rant out of the way and you're still actually reading this. Should I give up on the dealership (I'm no longer under the new car purchase warranty, 30 days) and hit up the family mechanic? Or should I fight to have the dealership make this right? Also... Love the car, but this particular one... What do you guys think?


TL;DR Version:
Problems: Faulty spark plugs, leaking oil plug, overfilling of oil, upper gear grinding, loud ticking.
Solutions: Changed 1 or more spark plugs, replaced oil drain plug, drained extra oil.
Still Occurring: Loud ticking, gear grinding

http://imgur.com/a/O2AHz

[Clipdat]

I don't really have anything useful to add, this just fuels my hatred of incompetent dealer techs even more.

However, regarding the dipstick photo, I don't believe that is indicating a full two quarts overfilled. The distance between the two holes is one quart. So, it looks like they overfilled it by almost a full quart. Which is still pretty bad though.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Animal

Hello FT86 Club,

I read the rules that I could see (first post), please let me know if I accidentally violate any of them.

In late June, I purchased my absolutely gorgeous GT86. I was in love the second I started her up. I still am, despite a number of issues I'm seeming to have both with the car, and the dealership I purchased it from.
I'd like to say I bought this car from a large dealership so I was a little more lenient with the inspection. I didn't outright just hop in and go THIS ONE! I checked fluids, hoses, how she felt on the road. (Couldn't push it too hard sadly, which would have uncovered an issue.)


The first issue I had was a check engine light on my way to work. I was driving in 3rd at about 3000 RPMs. Wasn't pushing it, was pretty steady speed. I managed to catch the check engine light literally right as it came on. I pulled over, let it sit in neutral trying to see if I could feel or hear anything. I shut it off, waited a few minutes, started it back up. The light was still on. I drove it straight to the dealership and asked them what was up. The first week with the car and it's throwing a code. Tech goes out and runs the scan, no light, no code. He checks old codes and sees an engine misfire code. They tell me it's from the spark plugs. Saying they should have been changed at 60K. (I bought the car with 64K). They replace the plugs... Honestly feel like they only replaced the one, since they left the empty box in the engine bay.

Second issue... Pretty bad oil leak. Asked them to check it out (very slow drip, not something you'd notice unless you went under the car. They went under and found an aftermarket Greddy plug that was not threaded properly. They replaced it with an OEM plug and changed my oil. Here is where I segway into my current issue... They overfilled the oil by almost 2 quarts. (Dealerships don't take this accusation well at all... Haha) I put about 400 miles on the car without thinking to check the oil. (I'm not a moron with cars, I, however, don't check my fluids while I fill up like I probably should at this point.) I noticed loud ticking coming from the drivers' side (I think this is cylinders 2 and 4.) I took it back to the dealer, they said this sound was normal, yet they're going to put in a claim to Scion for a replacement high-pressure fuel pump. (Nothing wrong, but replacing a part... Mkay)

Finally, my transmission... I asked the dealership to check out the transmission because it was grinding from 5th to 6th, and from 6th to 5th to 4th if you're shifting while pushing the car. This is NOT from poor clutch work from the driver! Just to prove I wasn't coming off the clutch too early, I left it in while at 6K shifting from 5th to 6th, I could feel it mesh like complete crap while the clutch was fully in. Now when I went over the dash cam footage, the tech decided that shifts from 3 to 6 seconds were a normal shifting scenario. I could hear the engine drop all the way back to idle and then rev back up to match the wheels. They tested this twice not finding an issue.

So, now that I've got my rant out of the way and you're still actually reading this. Should I give up on the dealership (I'm no longer under the new car purchase warranty, 30 days) and hit up the family mechanic? Or should I fight to have the dealership make this right? Also... Love the car, but this particular one... What do you guys think?


TL;DR Version:
Problems: Faulty spark plugs, leaking oil plug, overfilling of oil, upper gear grinding, loud ticking.
Solutions: Changed 1 or more spark plugs, replaced oil drain plug, drained extra oil.
Still Occurring: Loud ticking, gear grinding

http://imgur.com/a/O2AHz

Well first off you didn't buy a GT86 I assume you bought a FRS. If it was a 17 then you bought an 86 with no GT in front of the numbers. We all know what you mean though. (Sorry, I like accuracy)

I presume from the mileage it is a 13?
The plugs should indeed have been replaced at 60K and they probably did change them all. If you don't throw the CEL again just consider that fixed.

The oil leak was an aftermarket part and again it sounds fixed. As far as the overfill goes if it was going to harm the engine it would have done it quickly so if drained I would again consider it fixed.

The shifting is a different matter. You may shift fine but somebody before you had 60K to knock the crap out of the tranny. There have been some know issues with the 5th gear sychros though so I would continue to push that with them. If it was reported before hitting the warranty cut off they should still honour it.

The car does make a very loud ticking. It is the injectors and is indeed perfectly normal. It is the noisiest engine I have ever heard and rivals an old Russian farm tractor for ticks and clicks. If running fine it probably is just the normal noises that take some getting used to.

So, in summary, don't sweat the resolved issues, if the tick bothers you have somebody else check it out and try again on the tranny grind.

[Animal]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

I don't really have anything useful to add, this just fuels my hatred of incompetent dealer techs even more.

However, regarding the dipstick photo, I don't believe that is indicating a full two quarts overfilled. The distance between the two holes is one quart. So, it looks like they overfilled it by almost a full quart. Which is still pretty bad though.

I will be checking the dipstick religiously, I was told 2 quarts was drained, but since I wasn't with them watching the oil pour out they could have been exaggerating.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well first off you didn't buy a GT86 I assume you bought a FRS. If it was a 17 then you bought an 86 with no GT in front of the numbers. We all know what you mean though. (Sorry, I like accuracy)

I presume from the mileage it is a 13?
The plugs should indeed have been replaced at 60K and they probably did change them all. If you don't throw the CEL again just consider that fixed.

The oil leak was an aftermarket part and again it sounds fixed. As far as the overfill goes if it was going to harm the engine it would have done it quickly so if drained I would again consider it fixed.

The shifting is a different matter. You may shift fine but somebody before you had 60K to knock the crap out of the tranny. There have been some know issues with the 5th gear sychros though so I would continue to push that with them. If it was reported before hitting the warranty cut off they should still honour it.

The car does make a very loud ticking. It is the injectors and is indeed perfectly normal. It is the noisiest engine I have ever heard and rivals an old Russian farm tractor for ticks and clicks. If running fine it probably is just the normal noises that take some getting used to.

So, in summary, don't sweat the resolved issues, if the tick bothers you have somebody else check it out and try again on the tranny grind.

Well, that's eye opening, the old owner slapped a GT86 badge on the trunk. I'll be ripping that off tomorrow. Yeah, I wasn't fretting too big on the resolved issues, but wanted them stated just to show how much has gone wrong with this car in the 2 months I've had it. The tranny issue was reported once while inside the warranty, and I have proof of that. It was checked again today 9/8/17 and they were still unable to replicate the problem. I will record it and bring it back to them for the third time and claim that the issue was brought to their attention within the warranty period and see if they'll waive another diagnostic charge. Ticking was drowning out my exhaust. It's nerve racking! Haha

Thank you both for the helpful replies!

[Ultramaroon]

Solid advice from Tcoat. Good recording of your engine idling with DI mode. Sounds perfectly healthy. Wait until you start hearing the crickets.

Keep trying with the transmission.

Edit: Rebadge was a popular thing. So much ridiculous hate on the Scion brand. Just silly.

[Clipdat]

Keep the GT86 badge, it's cool! And it's probably harder to get it off at this point versus just leaving it.

By exhaust, do you mean stock exhaust? Or an aftermarket exhaust?

The FA20 does make a variety of ticking sounds courtesy of the DI system. However, there are certain ticking noises that I would still consider to be a red flag.

For example, if the loud ticking starts as soon as the car is turned on (or perhaps as soon as the high idle drops and you can actually hear the engine), then I would think there could be a bigger issue going on or a sign of potential damage.

Furthermore, if the ticking stays and changes (rises/falls) with RPMs. Try slowly bringing the revs up while in neutral and see if the ticking increases in frequency. If it does and it's louder than just the natural noise the engine is making, then again I would consider it as a sign of something bigger.

You did seem to have a high quality recording of the engine's idle in the video you posted, but it's still difficult to accurately "hear" the engine via YouTube. Perhaps you could meet up with a fellow owner that is local to you or come out to one of the bay area meets and hear a few other engine's idle sounds compared to your own.

Originally Posted by Animal

Well, that's eye opening, the old owner slapped a GT86 badge on the trunk. I'll be ripping that off tomorrow.

Ticking was drowning out my exhaust. It's nerve racking! Haha

[Animal]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Solid advice from Tcoat. Good recording of your engine idling with DI mode. Sounds perfectly healthy. Wait until you start hearing the crickets.

Keep trying with the transmission.

Edit: Rebadge was a popular thing. So much ridiculous hate on the Scion brand. Just silly.

Yeah, it's been on my to-do list for awhile. I do like the piston 86 badges on the sides, but I'm rocking Toyota badges on the body, and Scion badges on the steering wheel and key fob. Plus that false GT86 badge which now feels like a poison on my baby.

[Animal]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Keep the GT86 badge, it's cool! And it's probably harder to get it off at this point versus just leaving it.

By exhaust, do you mean stock exhaust? Or an aftermarket exhaust?

The FA20 does make a variety of ticking sounds courtesy of the DI system. However, there are certain ticking noises that I would still consider to be a red flag.

For example, if the loud ticking starts as soon as the car is turned on (or perhaps as soon as the high idle drops and you can actually hear the engine), then I would think there could be a bigger issue going on or a sign of potential damage.

Furthermore, if the ticking stays and changes (rises/falls) with RPMs. Try slowly bringing the revs up while in neutral and see if the ticking increases in frequency. If it does and it's louder than just the natural noise the engine is making, then again I would consider it as a sign of something bigger.

I have a catback Invidia Exhaust setup.

When I get the car back from the dealer (getting it back from their evil clutches tomorrow morning) I will test it in a variety of manners. I noticed it originally after driving about 4 miles from a cold start. The engine was at operating temp. I wouldn't have noticed it if I wasn't in a rush and opened the door before turning the car off.

[Clipdat]

Well you could have either the Invidia N1 or Q300. If you are hearing it while driving over the N1 (dual JDM canon style exhaust), then I would be a bit concerned.

If you are just hearing it when you step out of the car when it's idling, then I would NOT be concerned.

Originally Posted by Animal

I have a catback Invidia Exhaust setup.

When I get the car back from the dealer (getting it back from their evil clutches tomorrow morning) I will test it in a variety of manners. I noticed it originally after driving about 4 miles from a cold start. The engine was at operating temp. I wouldn't have noticed it if I wasn't in a rush and opened the door before turning the car off.

[Animal]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Well you could have either the Invidia N1 or Q300. If you are hearing it while driving over the N1 (dual JDM canon style exhaust), then I would be a bit concerned.

If you are just hearing it when you step out of the car when it's idling, then I would NOT be concerned.

Perfect, don't hear a thing while inside the car other than the exhaust note, which is Invidia N1.

Feel much better having only to worry about the tranny. Which I have basically come to terms that something is wrong with it at this point.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Animal

I will be checking the dipstick religiously, I was told 2 quarts was drained, but since I wasn't with them watching the oil pour out they could have been exaggerating.



Well, that's eye opening, the old owner slapped a GT86 badge on the trunk. I'll be ripping that off tomorrow. Yeah, I wasn't fretting too big on the resolved issues, but wanted them stated just to show how much has gone wrong with this car in the 2 months I've had it. The tranny issue was reported once while inside the warranty, and I have proof of that. It was checked again today 9/8/17 and they were still unable to replicate the problem. I will record it and bring it back to them for the third time and claim that the issue was brought to their attention within the warranty period and see if they'll waive another diagnostic charge. Ticking was drowning out my exhaust. It's nerve racking! Haha

Thank you both for the helpful replies!

Ya like Clip said just leave the badges. It was very common to swap them and although not technically accurate they still look good.

You get used to the ticking after a while. I would be much more concerned if it all of a sudden stopped doing it.

Most of what "went wrong" really is nothing for a car with that many miles on it. Now you know the tick is actually normal, the plugs were past their life and the oil was a badly done aftermarket part it really just leaves the tranny. Be willing to bet that the tranny issue is more related to the prior owner than an actual faulty part but still worth pursuing.

[Clipdat]

Yeah, I'm sure that the engine didn't like being overfilled, but like Tcoat said, it would've been a matter of driving for just a few miles with it overfilled for something to catastrophically fail. So you at least dodged a bullet there. But wow it chaps my ass to know that some idiot tech overfilled it in the first place.

Originally Posted by Animal

Perfect, don't hear a thing while inside the car other than the exhaust note, which is Invidia N1.

Feel much better having only to worry about the tranny. Which I have basically come to terms that something is wrong with it at this point.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Animal

I took it back to the dealer, they said this sound was normal, yet they're going to put in a claim to Scion for a replacement high-pressure fuel pump. (Nothing wrong, but replacing a part... Mkay)
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Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Solid advice from Tcoat. Good recording of your engine idling with DI mode. Sounds perfectly healthy. Wait until you start hearing the crickets.

Keep trying with the transmission.

Edit: Rebadge was a popular thing. So much ridiculous hate on the Scion brand. Just silly.

Looks like he may not (or may based on the people that have had it done without success it is not a given) get to experience the companionship and soothing resonance of the crickets.

[Animal]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya like Clip said just leave the badges. It was very common to swap them and although not technically accurate they still look good.

You get used to the ticking after a while. I would be much more concerned if it all of a sudden stopped doing it.

Most of what "went wrong" really is nothing for a car with that many miles on it. Now you know the tick is actually normal, the plugs were past their life and the oil was a badly done aftermarket art it really just leaves the tranny. Be willing to bet that the tranny issue is more related to the prior owner than an actual faulty part but still worth pursuing.

Alright, I will leave the badges, despite them blatantly lying about what my car is... *starts searching for GTR badges on eBay*
Thank you for easing my mind a bit to actually sleep. Haha

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Yeah, I'm sure that the engine didn't like being overfilled, but like Tcoat said, it would've been a matter of driving for just a few miles with it overfilled for something to catastrophically fail. So you at least dodged a bullet there. But wow it chaps my ass to know that some idiot tech overfilled it in the first place.

Yeah, he was on the defensive real quick, despite me not being one of those people who scream their heads off. Was just a simple, "Hey, pulled the dipstick and saw more oil than what should have been in there.". What bugged me the most was even with the picture he said it was hearsay and since I didn't drive the car knowing it was overfilled back to the dealer, there wasn't much they could really do in the sense of checking it out for damage. All because the problem didn't exist that their techs could physically see.