BRZ vs Mustang - Here is the review the haters have been waiting for.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

God, the more I read this forum, the more I see that 99% of its members are incredibly ignorant to anything automotive. From the looks of things, were going to see a new genre of crowd, that will be labeled as the Toybaru people.

Ah well, might be a bit of a relief from all the bowtie and blue oval fanbois over the ages...

The FR-S/BRZ will be a great car, but it won't even come close to being one of the fastest cars out there on a track or the road,

This is news to pretty much no one.

As far as a Mustang is concerned, and I am purely going off of factual track times. The GT completely shits on everything under 90k.

Corvette?

Anyone who thinks the new mustangs can't handle a turn are living in another world.

Analogy: Budweiser can get you just as drunk as Samuel Adams can. But some of us will enjoy Samuel Adams a LOT more.

I cant wait till these things start showing up on the roads and I get to hear about the sad looks on peoples faces when they exit a turn behind a car they thought they were playing with and its 15 car lengths ahead of them. There are cars that can go really fast, and there's cars that can handle really well. The sweet spot is in the middle and some of you aren't going to open your eyes to that until its cost you 26k.

Sweet spot is in a different place for all of us.
Power and outright acceleration is totally overrated on the street, anyway. You have to drive like an ass to use it. I DD an S2000 and never get into VTEC on the street (never out of it at the track). The way I drive it on the street, it's essentially a 150hp car, and it is *still* FUN to drive.
In a way that a 3500+ lb. Mustang will never be.

The FR-S/BRZ will essentially give me the same DD fun as the S2000 with a fixed roof and some more utility, which is why it STRONGLY appeals to me.

At the track, I don't see a reason to compromise either handling or power. So 515hp 2825 lb. FD RX-7

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by blur

You're comparing tire sizes of 255 vs 215... with the same tires as the stang the 86 will out-handle it, easily...

Actually, the FR-S/BRZ on 215s has more tire width per weight than the V6 Mustang on 255s.

With both on same make/model tires in the respective OEM sizings, I wouldn't bet against the Toyobaru vs. Track Pack Mustang as far as handling goes.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

I really believe that alot of people are not in the market for a new car. They are just fanboys not realizing all the options u have for a 28k 2+2 sports car. Those who put a deposit down and the first 86 are people who know for a fact they want this car and no review or comment will change their mind. Then their are people like me who have been saving their money and are in the market to buy a car now but are waiting to test drive the brz/fr-s b4 plopping down the money for it.

And come on stop all this "what if" crap. U have to realize what ever mod or money that u do to the brz can also be done to any other car. The fact is this they tested two cars and one was faster than the other no tricks it was the same driver on the same track with the same conditions and both were factory cars. Perhaps a couple years from now Subaru will add a turbo and blow away the competition but now they are getting beat easily.

No, I think most people are in the same boat as you, including myself. Only a small handful of people have put down money on the car before driving it, which I agree is quite silly.

I personally have driven modestly powered compact coupes since I started driving, and that's what I intend to replace my 92 celica with.

Maybe it's just lack direct competition for this car that is causing fanboyism?
Or maybe its the nostalgia causing it since this car is inspired by and has the size and power you'd expect from a car built in the 80's or 90's?

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

I really believe that alot of people are not in the market for a new car. They are just fanboys not realizing all the options u have for a 28k 2+2 sports car. Those who put a deposit down and the first 86 are people who know for a fact they want this car and no review or comment will change their mind. Then their are people like me who have been saving their money and are in the market to buy a car now but are waiting to test drive the brz/fr-s b4 plopping down the money for it.

And come on stop all this "what if" crap. U have to realize what ever mod or money that u do to the brz can also be done to any other car. The fact is this they tested two cars and one was faster than the other no tricks it was the same driver on the same track with the same conditions and both were factory cars. Perhaps a couple years from now Subaru will add a turbo and blow away the competition but now they are getting beat easily.

I don't see how you could watch that video and think the mustang won that comparison, but if you care that much about lap times you can join the millions of secretaries and hair dressers out there and get yourself a v6 mustang. Good riddance.

Originally Posted by justaquestion

The GT completely shits on everything under 90k.

And we are the ones being called fanboys...

[fistpoint]

Who the hell would spend $30k on a V6 Mustang? Or even $28k?

[SaulGood3]

1:30 and 1:29 is a good time around Streets of Willow no matter what car it is!!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by blur

You're comparing tire sizes of 255 vs 215... with the same tires as the stang the 86 will out-handle it, easily...

It's the same as the GT-R owning everyone in the first 4 laps, then brake fade hits and the tires get greasy... and everyone passes you. Same thing will happen on the stang. The 86, on the other hand...

How come there are no stock car enduros, would be an entertaining watch...

...well on the other hand the mustang isnt passing the 86 because its in the rearview? but serisously we are again comparing a stock car to a modded car is stupid especially if the more expensive one is the one that gets modded. wheels and tires that size are expensive if you can even find them in that bolt pattern. that kind of money can make a v6 mustang fast too or better yet, get you into a gt where i dont think tires alone will get you into that league.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Thanks for this useless response, that hasn't even any relevance to a counter argument for anything I said. It might have looked intelligent, had I been talking to myself, but everything was a response to the ten page thread you obviously haven't been following. Thanks for chiming in though with your thoughts

When you have a ten page thread, with the majority of responses relating to either cheering that the BRZ was a second and a half slower then the V6 Mustang, what can be done to make it faster then the V6 Mustang, and why the BRZ is actually faster because of the extra options the V6 came with... I would consider that a pretty big representation of people with a "lame attempt to convince us that lap times = greatness about a car." attitude.

You are ignoring what everyone is saying and hearing what you want to hear. Nobody is "cheering that the BRZ lost." Maybe you need to watch the video again? I don't get how anyone could watch this comparison and think they preferred the Mustang. There is more to buying a car than how fast it can go around the streets of willow springs.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

I don't see how you could watch that video and think the mustang won that comparison, but if you care that much about lap times you can join the millions of secretaries and hair dressers out there and get yourself a v6 mustang. Good riddance.



And we are the ones being called fanboys...

because usually the faster car wins thats how. its not like they were talking bad about the mustang. yeah that last statement he made was pretty fanboyish but your secretary comment was even more ignorant

Originally Posted by fistpoint

Who the hell would spend $30k on a V6 Mustang? Or even $28k?

nobody but that doesnt matter because you dont pay msrp for a mustang. people are talking about paying more for the brz. 28k will get you a gt so...when the brz comes with 3-4 thousand factory cash back, i will probably change my mind but until then the mustangs are probably the best value in the market

[Spaceywilly]

You might want to check out this link

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to-2012-page-8

[Embarrassed]

It's not that good. I did a <1:29 in an STS neon on Dunlop S8000 tires - before they opened up turn 4.

I'm not even Randy Pobst.

O

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

A fact is a fact. I don't own a new Mustang, and I never have. In fact, I am a pretty big BMW fanboy, owning an E46 myself, and guess what? The new Mustang SHITS on the M3 too. Its the best bang for the buck performance car too date, and this thread is about the BRZ vs Mustang, so I can say it as much as I want.

well this thread isnt about the m3 or the mustang gt is it?

and please cheack that link out, the viper gained 1.1 seconds going from pretty good tires to awesome tires...
somewhere in your head you think the BRZ cant pick up over a second going from crappy tires to race spec tires then it would be about dead even with the mustang... then wheres your argument...
or how about do what the mustang did to the brz
225 sticky tires, new shocks and springs, stiffer sway bars
and then see if the brz doesnt post BETTER lap times than the mustang, and with a specially tuned suspension, bigger sway bars and sticky tires there isnt much room for modification on the mustang then to beat a BRZ, on small to medium tracks the brz will be faster than the mustang even though the mustang has a 11.51 power to weight vs the brz 13.74 thats a power gap of
2.23 and the mustang still isnt any faster, the brz got the handling down good, infact its better than about 90% of the cars on the road today, most of those cars break the 80,000 price point....

ohh yeah and a review team thought the brz felt better handling wise than a GTR, it doesnt actually handle better but it puts a bigger grin on the drivers face than the GTR and not many cars can say that...

edit if you click that link, the 190 hp elise beat the 400 hp corvette, theres a few car companies that understand handling is just as important or more important than hp numbers...

ohh yeah and there are 53 cars that are better than the 5.0L mustang that includes the lexus ISF you know that sports sedan made by toyota.. lol stop being a fan boy we KNOW the BRZ/FRS/GT86 is slow, we also know that live axel sucks too :P

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

You might want to check out this link
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to-2012-page-8

good stuff

[Deslock]

I wasn't going to respond to this thread because, well, frankly it shouldn't exist since there was already a V6 Mustang vs BRZ thread. But I digress...

Originally Posted by ZDan

Actually, the FR-S/BRZ on 215s has more tire width per weight than the V6 Mustang on 255s.

It's not just width. The Mustang's 255/40R19 tires have a larger diameter, so in addition to a wider contact patch, the Mustang also has a longer contact patch.

Originally Posted by NickDude84

i was expecting the mustang to beat it in a 1/4 mile but on the track, wow what a disappointment. do you guys realize what 1.5 seconds on a racetrack is?

1.23 sec is a lot in a competition, but a car being 1.38% faster around a track doesn't mean it'll be more enjoyable. Both Angus MacKenzie and Randy Pobst were very clear about the BRZ being a better drivers car than the Mustang V6 (even with Ford's performance package).

Nothing about this video is disappointing.

Originally Posted by NickDude84

i would have never thought the mustang would win in what the brz is supposed to dominate.

What? I've never seen any suggestion that the BRZ would dominate on the track. I've seen a lot of suggestions that the BRZ ought to be a blast at the track despite being slow or at best moderately quick (just like a Miata).

Originally Posted by NickDude84

this is not just car x beat car y its truly shocking that a mundane rental car like a v6 stang with no modification beat the brz in its home turf the track.

Right... Mustangs with the performance package are in so many "mundane" rental fleets these days.

Originally Posted by NickDude84

although i agree that the test driver seemed to like the brz more than the stang its still shocking that everyone on this board seems to gloss over the fact that it lost.

I expected the BRZ to be much slower than it was. To anyone but a hater, the BRZ won the comparison.

Originally Posted by NickDude84

just wait for the brz/fr-s genesis coup comparison, it would probably be the same.

That comparison already happened and didn't go well for the GC:

Originally Posted by autoguide_GC2.0T_written_review

A bragging point for Hyundai is that the new 2.0T has an even better power to weight ratio than the Scion FR-S. The comparisons between the two should probably end there, however. As solid a car as the new Genesis is, it’s a more substantial vehicle and lacks the purity of the FR-S, which excels at communicating with the driver through the chassis and steering.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

That's a good point and the Brz gets the JDM ladies

Any Japanese girls that have any interest in cars that I've met here (all of 3) have been all about Vettes, Stangs and Jeeps. The American icons. Go figure...



Heh.