Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Zoik]

yeah, i confirm what someone wrote upper in the thread : we in europe (France) we received by email announcement from toyota for the ones wanting to book an order. They ask for 2000euros fee but dont give the full specifications of the car...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by JD001

I can't believe that the first customer cars for the UK planned July 2019.. factoid picked up reading Evo's review of the camouflaged car, its CoG is lower than our Twins.. don't understand how..

There would be several ways to lower the cog on a given car:

—Add weight down low
—Remove or reduce weight up high
—Lower the suspension

I’m sure they did all three.

The car is heavier than ours so any weight down low would aid in a lower COG. For example, a slant six has a higher COG than a flat four, but a heavy iron block could make the average mass lower than an all aluminum setup.

The roof, trunk, hood or other components could be carbon fiber or aluminum, so stuff up high could be lighter.

The car’s suspension could ride lower, or they could lower components like the seats, battery, etc.

[fatoni]

i think the moral of the story is that the cog of the frs was impressive but the marketing made you believe it was unreal. while all the while it was not the lowest. not ever, not in its time, not in its class. just an economy sports car. nothing wrong with that.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think the moral of the story is that the cog of the frs was impressive but the marketing made you believe it was unreal. while all the while it was not the lowest. not ever, not in its time, not in its class. just an economy sports car. nothing wrong with that.

The COG was one of the lowest. It was only bested by cars in the six figure plus range. The Tesla has a lower COG and can achieve decent skid pad g’s, but the thing is a boat, so yea, there is more to handling than COG. With that said, I really haven’t heard of how the 86 handles with an inline swap like a 2jz or KA, so it is hard to know how much that COG matters for the 86 or if it was a marketing gymic. From my experience of having a supercharger, the extra weight up high is noticeable, so it probably does contribute to the car’s great handling.

[krayzie]

Well isn't the LFA 15mm lower than the 86/BRZ in CoG? I can't see why they can't do it with the new Supra then.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The COG was one of the lowest. It was only bested by cars in the six figure plus range. The Tesla has a lower COG and can achieve decent skid pad g’s, but the thing is a boat, so yea, there is more to handling than COG. With that said, I really haven’t heard of how the 86 handles with an inline swap like a 2jz or KA, so it is hard to know how much that COG matters for the 86 or if it was a marketing gymic. From my experience of having a supercharger, the extra weight up high is noticeable, so it probably does contribute to the car’s great handling.

but i think that goes to show you that it really is just marketing. why do you know that its cog rivals supercars? they told you. did they tell you that its not as low as a miata? how about a corvette? its got its weight down low but of the serious drivers cars, its kinda middle of the pack. nothing wrong with that. just a good all around sports car for 30k.

[vh_supra26]

Tons of more pics in link below!

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a90...revealed.1404/

[Rampage]

I guess it is understandable that Europe will likely get the cars first based on the pre-orders starting there and the factory being located in Austria which cuts down on logistical delays. What surprised me a bit was that Toyota/Subaru showed the twins at NAIAS in January 2012 and the car was being delivered to customers in June of 2012 as a 2013 model. Some of the First 86 even showed up at dealerships in late May. Toyota is showing the Supra at NAIAS in January 2019 and that press release said that the first Supra customers would get the Supra 900 cars "after the summer". That sounds suspiciously like September-October for a 2020 Toyota Supra. The car is still a year away?

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Tons of more pics in link below!

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a90...revealed.1404/

Looks like the US 4 cylinder gets a B46D where Europe gets a B48D. I wonder what the difference is, just emission equipment?

Edit: 4 cylinder will be the same engine that comes in the 230i, 330i and a couple SUVs. 250ish HP and 260ish TQ. If the Supra 4 comes in around 3100LB then that should be good for 0-60 around 5.1 and 1/4 mile just a few tenths under 14 sec.

[gymratter]

a guy over at clublexus has some info to share.

I'm glad some one finally asked about the Supra. From what I understand it will start in the low $40ks. We are making a big announcement at SEMA 2018. Their will be two BMW sourced motors I4 and I6 mated to a 8 Speed ZF Auto. It will be made in Austria. Double bubble roof, fixed rear wing spoiler, engine state of tune will be reminiscent of BMWs tune. I saw 355hp and 365 lb-ft for the i6. There will be nonfunctional air intake slits on the side just aft of the doors, but they aren't as terrible as the ones on the 4th gen Mustangs. It will go on sale next spring. LED headlights and taillights. Tablet style infotainment on the dashboard. No manual was talked about.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by fatoni

but i think that goes to show you that it really is just marketing. why do you know that its cog rivals supercars? they told you. did they tell you that its not as low as a miata? how about a corvette? its got its weight down low but of the serious drivers cars, its kinda middle of the pack. nothing wrong with that. just a good all around sports car for 30k.

Look up the numbers yourself. I did.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by fatoni

but i think that goes to show you that it really is just marketing. why do you know that its cog rivals supercars? they told you. did they tell you that its not as low as a miata? how about a corvette? its got its weight down low but of the serious drivers cars, its kinda middle of the pack. nothing wrong with that. just a good all around sports car for 30k.

C7 17.5
LFA 17.5
BRZ 18.1
ND 18.5
Cayman 19

Obviously COG isn’t everything. Tesla S is a good example of that.

Considering the Twins don’t have aluminum chassis or CF roofs and crap like that it’s impressive they are so low.

[Captain Snooze]

I consider cog heights just to be a marketing ploy in the same ballpark as weight distribution. Yeah, it's a thing but it is just a another cog in the whole machine.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRvUH1sJvEQ[/ame]

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I consider cog heights just to be a marketing ploy in the same ballpark as weight distribution. Yeah, it's a thing but it is just a another cog in the whole machine.

You need a slew of things to all come together to make a good handling car. If you have a car that has one property that is dramatically better than most then obviously you will market with it. The COG on the Twins is unusually low for a cheap sports car without exotic materials and worth bragging about. Porsche being rear engine is also worth bragging about. They drive in a unique way that some people prefer. Having a 50/50 balance is worth bragging about. Having a 2000lbs curb weight is worth bragging about.

Not sure what relevance that video has though other than proving COG does have an impact. As I was watching it I was waiting for the poor handling Porsche to beat the well handling 7 due to raw power or something but in the end the car with the lower COG and curb weight won.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I consider cog heights just to be a marketing ploy in the same ballpark as weight distribution. Yeah, it's a thing but it is just a another cog in the whole machine.

To add to ermax's response:

Every component of performance can be a marketing ploy. A low center of gravity provides a feel. More horsepower provides a feel. Low weight provides a feel, or a lot of weight provides a feel. Active suspension provides a feel. A short or long wheelbase provides a feel. Sharp steering ratios provide a feel. 50/50 weight distribution provides a feel. Some things like curb weight or power can be felt in more driving situations, so it may hold more marketing power or value to the customer. I wouldn't say COG is a marketing ploy; it is an attribute worth mentioning--something that provides value for potential customers.

With that said, the new Supra seems to have a lot of boxes checked: 50/50 weight distribution, a low COG, an inherently smooth straight six, a reasonable and usable amount of power for the street, RWD, a relatively low curb weight for its class, a chassis that is stiffer than the LFA, and probably more. It should be a pretty sweet car if they nailed the rest of the suspension and managed to get most the mass between the wheelbase.