Specific goals in mind... Need help selecting FI kit and tune accordingly

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

There must be a reason planes use turbochargers and not superchargers. I think I'm going to go with a turbo. I know that SC is a lot more popular for our platform but turbo fits my needs better. I just don't know the go to brands for turbo kits for this car.

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Works is CARB legal if that matters at all for you or for resale. There is the turbo compilation thread for reference. The difference is some of the kits might use some budget parts to keep cost down. Some use some nice brand labels that increase costs too, if you like that idea. Some might come with a tapped oil pan or other extras, so just check them out. There are individual buyers' threads on each kit.

[Irace86.2.0]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81428

[Harey]

Elevation will have a similar effect to a hot day vs a cold day. Less dense air on a hot day (high elevation) and more dense air on a cold day (sea level). A good tune accounts for this.

The difference I think you are getting at between turbo and SC is:
- turbo will keep trying harder and harder to get to its boost target
- SC is a fixed speed. it will spin at the same rpm per engine rpm no matter what the air density.

Both will be down on power at high elevation. Turbo will keep trying harder to achieve its boost target but because the engine power is down the turbo is not being spun as much as normal so there will be added lag at elevation.

I see your point, the turbo will actually work harder at elevation than at sea level but the supercharger will just work the same.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

I see, would it be wise to get an oil cooler regardless of which route I go? I will be driving spiritedly during my commute. Not auto cross level of abuse, but prolonged 4-6k rpm for about an hour. Also a catch can?

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Absolutely yes on the oil cooler, if youre sustaining rpms like that.. Catch can... use my litmus test. If the charge pipes have any oil in them after some driving, get one. Or you can get one from the get go.

If you're local, perhaps you should schedule an appointment to experience various TC and SC setups in person. CSG has multiple cars and kits on test mules.

[Irace86.2.0]

Just to summarize, most kits are top mount at the front. Some might be rear mount high or low or front mount low. Low mounts might have faster spool times because they are closer to the exhaust exits, but maybe not if they don't have an equal length manifold, which is also good. Some will use cheaper turbos or cheaper manifolds. If money is no object then you would want a twin scroll ball bearing turbo with a twin scroll manifold. Some kits may offer twin scroll manifolds. Some might be runnning turbos with an internal wastegate built into the turbo. Some more expensive kits will likely be using an external wastegate. Those that do may offer a recirculating pipe, so when you hit max boost the engine doesn't sound like a banshee, but some like that. Some kits may have a closed blow off valve. Others may vent to air. There are a lot of factors to consider.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

There must be a reason planes use turbochargers and not superchargers. I think I'm going to go with a turbo. I know that SC is a lot more popular for our platform but turbo fits my needs better. I just don't know the go to brands for turbo kits for this car.

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Planes use turbos because the engines generally operate in a very narrow range of output and rpms. You can use a giant turbo with massive lag and high efficiency, a style of turbo which is not very driveable on a car.

It's like trying to use a diesel turbo on a gasoline engine.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Just to summarize, most kits are top mount at the front. Some might be rear mount high or low or front mount low. Low mounts might have faster spool times because they are closer to the exhaust exits, but maybe not if they don't have an equal length manifold, which is also good. Some will use cheaper turbos or cheaper manifolds. If money is no object then you would want a twin scroll ball bearing turbo with a twin scroll manifold. Some kits may offer twin scroll manifolds. Some might be runnning turbos with an internal wastegate built into the turbo. Some more expensive kits will likely be using an external wastegate. Those that do may offer a recirculating pipe, so when you hit max boost the engine doesn't sound like a banshee, but some like that. Some kits may have a closed blow off valve. Others may vent to air. There are a lot of factors to consider.

I've never seen a low mount kit with shorter runners than a front/top mount kit for this car. I'd love placement of the turbo like that of my FA20DIT WRX... but that doesn't fit; you have chassis in the way.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've never seen a low mount kit with shorter runners than a front/top mount kit for this car. I'd love placement of the turbo like that of my FA20DIT WRX... but that doesn't fit; you have chassis in the way.

You mean you haven't seen a low mount turbo kit with a shorter manifold that still has equal length tubes, right? Because Avo is shorter, but isn't equal...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13156

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

There must be a reason planes use turbochargers and not superchargers.

Most likely the reason is efficiency.

Why do you think you need to swap pulleys to run at sea level vs 4k? I don't think the power lose will be as pronounced as you think.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You mean you haven't seen a low mount turbo kit with a shorter manifold that still has equal length tubes, right? Because Avo is shorter, but isn't equal...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13156

Yes.

And serious EJ's all run EL headers for a reason....

[Harey]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Why do you think you need to swap pulleys to run at sea level vs 4k? I don't think the power lose will be as pronounced as you think.

I think he thought that the ecu couldnt adjust for the different air density, which it can of course.

Because a turbo would try to run at the same pressure and a supercharger would generate a lower pressure at altitude he thought this meant a turbo would be safer.

[DesertLava]

Originally Posted by Harey

I think he thought that the ecu couldnt adjust for the different air density, which it can of course.

Because a turbo would try to run at the same pressure and a supercharger would generate a lower pressure at altitude he thought this meant a turbo would be safer.

But if you tune for 4000ft and have shorter pulleys then go to sea level you can over boost and blow your engine. Read CSG Mike post above.

It's safe to run sea level tune and pulleys and just deal with the loss at 4000ft. But a tune and pulleys for 4000ft would definitely risk blowing the engine at sea level. Unless you want to run two different tunes every single day you would have to change pulleys at sea level for a 4000ft optimized tune or sacrifice performance at elevation with a sea level optimized tune.

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[Harey]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

But if you tune for 4000ft and have shorter pulleys then go to sea level you can over boost and blow your engine. Read CSG Mike post above.

It's safe to run sea level tune and pulleys and just deal with the loss at 4000ft. But a tune and pulleys for 4000ft would definitely risk blowing the engine at sea level. Unless you want to run two different tunes every single day you would have to change pulleys at sea level for a 4000ft optimized tune or sacrifice performance at elevation with a sea level optimized tune.

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Yes you want to tune for the highest amount of airflow and let the ecu handle things below that.

As you have already said thats why your leaning to the turbo kit because it will try and run the same boost pressure in all conditions. It makes sense but you already said that you are happy with the n/a power at sea level, a sc at elevation will still be more powerful than that.

[DesertLava]

Originally Posted by Harey

Yes you want to tune for the highest amount of airflow and let the ecu handle things below that.

As you have already said thats why your leaning to the turbo kit because it will try and run the same boost pressure in all conditions. It makes sense but you already said that you are happy with the n/a power at sea level, a sc at elevation will still be more powerful than that.

Perhaps saying that I was okay with NA performance at sea level is adequate was a mistake. If I'm paying $5,000+ I'll want some performance improvement. Not chasing numbers, as it is my DD. But some improvement will be welcomed. Not planning to track it and be competitive at least until I can replace it's DD duty with a Tacoma.

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