Concerns about the 1st round of mods

[RYU]

I'd like to have an intelligent discussion about modding your BRZ. Let me first preface that i'm no longer the young kid who would sacrifice performance to achieve some look...i.e. Hella Flushing. Like many of us buying this car.. it will be a daily driver with a little bit of personalization.

In most of my past vehicles I typically upgrade the Wheels, Tires, and Suspension first. Yes, it improves the look but it also improves performance which I care more about the older I get. However, i'm not so sure I want to do that with the BRZ. The balance of the car hinges on those crappy Prius tires and we know it doesn't take much to ruin a perfect balance (so the reviews say..)

I'm concerned that if I upgrade the W/T/S I'll run the risk of taking a step backwards. We also know not all tuners actually know what they're doing and from what I see on this board a bunch of tuners are already throwing parts at this car just to see what sticks. They haven't even had a good chance at testing it yet...well maybe except for the big names like Greddy/Trust, TRD, HKS which got their test mules super early.

I'd like to get rid of those awful looking stock wheels for a visual upgrade but i'm concerned... really concerned the balance will be thrown off. Stickier tires will lead to more body roll which will increase the need for stiffer suspension and sways. Subaru/Toyota put a lot of engineering time into achieving that balance. I'm concerned once I start swapping out parts I'll screw it up!

What do you all think about that? I've been thinking about this for a few months now and it's giving me a headache. It was a no brainer before when the stock cars are generally crappy so a little improvement here and there was easy. Not so sure the BRZ is as crappy to begin with.

Some potential upgrades I'd like to consider.
* 18" lightweight wheels
* RE11s, Hankook Ventus V12. (I'll have a set of Star Specs or Azenis for the track)
* too early to decide on suspension but i'm certain the stock will have to change which, for once in my life, i'm not excited about given the concerns.

Note to the tuners: Please don't F' up this car. If you do your homework guys like me will pay for your good products.

[neutron256]

I'm like you, upgrades will be on the mild side if any. My plan is to drive it for a while, and at least get through the breakin period before I make any upgrade decisions. As for the tires I'll also need to try them for a while before I decide. But I know people have somewhat misstated that they're prius tires. They're the performance tire that is an option on the prius (not even available in the US).

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by RYU

I'd like to have an intelligent discussion about modding your BRZ. Let me first preface that i'm no longer the young kid who would sacrifice performance to achieve some look...i.e. Hella Flushing. Like many of us buying this car.. it will be a daily driver with a little bit of personalization.

In most of my past vehicles I typically upgrade the Wheels, Tires, and Suspension first. Yes, it improves the look but it also improves performance which I care more about the older I get. However, i'm not so sure I want to do that with the BRZ. The balance of the car hinges on those crappy Prius tires and we know it doesn't take much to ruin a perfect balance (so the reviews say..)

I'm concerned that if I upgrade the W/T/S I'll run the risk of taking a step backwards. We also know not all tuners actually know what they're doing and from what I see on this board a bunch of tuners are already throwing parts at this car just to see what sticks. They haven't even had a good chance at testing it yet...well maybe except for the big names like Greddy/Trust, TRD, HKS which got their test mules super early.

I'd like to get rid of those awful looking stock wheels for a visual upgrade but i'm concerned... really concerned the balance will be thrown off. Stickier tires will lead to more body roll which will increase the need for stiffer suspension and sways. Subaru/Toyota put a lot of engineering time into achieving that balance. I'm concerned once I start swapping out parts I'll screw it up!

What do you all think about that? I've been thinking about this for a few months now and it's giving me a headache. It was a no brainer before when the stock cars are generally crappy so a little improvement here and there was easy. Not so sure the BRZ is as crappy to begin with.

Some potential upgrades I'd like to consider.
* 18" lightweight wheels
* RE11s, Hankook Ventus V12. (I'll have a set of Star Specs or Azenis for the track)
* too early to decide on suspension but i'm certain the stock will have to change which, for once in my life, i'm not excited about given the concerns.

Note to the tuners: Please don't F' up this car. If you do your homework guys like me will pay for your good products.

i just want to say one thing, you think that the crappy tires dont give enough grip, your wrong(not trying to be a douche just many are mislead), but they do suck overall, the chassis is just so good... better tires would just mean the limits would be pushed further out but i dont believe that area for error would get any smaller

get the car, drive it and see what im talking about, or if you have any questions about the handling and its dynamics and how much grip is already available, talk to ichitaka05, he was able to auto x it, and i wasnt

one thing is for sure, after driving the car on the streets, i was already very familiar with the handling after the first couple minutes
the car inspires confidence with balance
or go read http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5248


personally i have a feeling i may never change the car's set up and if i do it will be on a very expensive set of coil overs to make daily driving softer and corners harder, and a supercharger to give a bit more grunt when i figure out all the limits this car has to offer and the rims are light "lightest rim toyota makes" thats pretty light in my book, if you get rims you might actually be adding weight :P

EDIT
ohh yeah and at the test drive events, no body is hitting cones on the courses they lay out :P that says a lot on how easy this car is to learn and become familiar with, and these people were getting the tail out and driving hard

[Racecomp Engineering]

Even as a tuner that solely focuses on suspension and brakes, I think these are valid concerns. We did have the car all to ourselves for a while earlier this year with time for R&D, making a prototype spring, and some good testing. The first thing we thought after driving the stock car was "Damn....this car is already really good" and we knew we had our work cut out for us. But that's okay, because we know we can do it and we love what we do.

This car really is a different animal and will take a lot of homework to actually improve things. Whereas with say....an STI or EVO with massive power, big tires, and AWD....there are things that cover up some aspects of a crappy suspension. There are so many crappy parts for that car with mismatched spring rates, really terrible coilover valving, springs that put the car on the bumpstops, and useless parts BUT some good ones that improve all aspects of the car. I'm always skeptical of "upgrades" and that carries over into our own work. We aim for function and we do it right. We do plan on posting as much data as we can on everything.

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical and patient. Go for rides with people near you with upgrades and see what you think! If you're near us, we'll have an open house and one of the things we like to do is hook people up with others willing to take other people for a spin.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

With all that said....with well thought out suspension/chassis modifications done right.....there is so much potential in this car it's not even funny! With the right mods this will be an absolute BEAST.

We know what the engineers behind this car were aiming for in terms of tossability, balance, fun-factor, and how easy it is to drive and we do not intend to change that. We're just gonna make it even better with our street level parts.

Plus all the go really fast mods for the autocrossers and track day guys/gals.

EDIT: i know i know...we're a suspension company so of course we're gonna say all that. the truth is we haven't stopped thinking about this car for months and we are really really excited. it's that good. and we're nerds, so we'd like to make it a little better. i could talk anyone's ear off about what my idea for an awesome "track pack" or "street stage one" or whatever would be. but i really can't blame people for being worried about screwing things up...the stock car is that good.

- andrew

[stevo_12v]

My first round of mods will be all about making the car lighter and stiffer all round first. I will still be using the Primacy HP's though to see how the car handles as it was intended to from the factory, and also to get a 'feel' of the car for the first few thousand km/miles.

1. Lightweight wheels(6.75kg) 17x8(WedsSport TC105N). Swap the Primacy HP tyres onto the new wheels.
2. Odyssey PC680 lightweight battery, mounted horizontally.
3. TRD Underbrace set.
4. TRD Strut bar
5. TRD Door stabilizers.
6. TOP SECRET bonnet damper.

Step one *should* be complete by tomorrow.. as long as Australian customs get their act together(clearance delay).

The second round of mods will be dependent on how easy-going the dealer is in respect to warranty considerations:
8. TRD Sports air filter.
9. HKS Spec-L exhaust.
10. CUSCO Oil/Air Separator.
11. Lightweight pulley.
12. TRD Brake pads or Pagid brake pads

I'll probably lower it though, just an inch or 1.5".. on RaceComps springs when they become available

[Spaceywilly]

I'm going to really focus on building up my WRX once I get the BRZ so I'll probably just do a catback exhaust and maybe some appearence mods and be done with it. I'm really pleased with how nice it is set up from the factory unlike the WRX and most other cars which need a lot of mods to get good handling. I think it will be a great car for the stock autocross classes, and in a few years once the supercharger kits are out I can really get to work

[RYU]

Your commitment gives me hope. Thanks for that.

One of my more serious tuner cars is the NSX which i've had for years. I've had a blast with it and will likely never part with the money pitt but I've had my fair share of what the NSX track community thinks are great parts. However, i've had many occasions where the end result is actually less than the sum of the parts. There are also a lot of parts that sell due to hype which i'm sure you're aware of and probably still scratching your head why.

I'm looking at the BRZ to be a daily driver. Your philosophy of making it faster, stickier, and stiffer WHILE still preserving the balance at the limits is difficult. You've got your work cut out for you and i'm eagerly awaiting your results!!!

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

With all that said....with well thought out suspension/chassis modifications done right.....there is so much potential in this car it's not even funny! With the right mods this will be an absolute BEAST.

We know what the engineers behind this car were aiming for in terms of tossability, balance, fun-factor, and how easy it is to drive and we do not intend to change that. We're just gonna make it even better with our street level parts.

Plus all the go really fast mods for the autocrossers and track day guys/gals.

- andrew

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by stevo_12v

My first round of mods will be all about making the car lighter and stiffer all round first. I will still be using the Primacy HP's though to see how the car handles as it was intended to from the factory, and also to get a 'feel' of the car for the first few thousand km/miles.

1. Lightweight wheels(6.75kg) 17x8(WedsSport TC105N). Swap the Primacy HP tyres onto the new wheels.
2. Odyssey PC680 lightweight battery, mounted horizontally.
3. TRD Underbrace set.
4. TRD Strut bar
5. TRD Door stabilizers.
6. TOP SECRET bonnet damper.

Step one *should* be complete by tomorrow.. as long as Australian customs get their act together(clearance delay).

The second round of mods will be dependent on how easy-going the dealer is in respect to warranty considerations:
8. TRD Sports air filter.
9. HKS Spec-L exhaust.
10. CUSCO Oil/Air Separator.
11. Lightweight pulley.
12. TRD Brake pads or Pagid brake pads

I'll probably lower it though, just an inch or 1.5".. on RaceComps springs when they become available

like the mods, i personally want the under body panels


i do plan on taking this car off road and to abandon airstrips, need to protect fuel lines and brake lines!

ohh yeah and Maddofurappu!!!!!!!

[Dave-ROR]

First mods.. hmm..
1. Better brake fluid (ATE Superblue/Typ 200)
2. Pads, probably Carbotechs
3. Advan AD08s in stock size (can't believe I'm saying that either) on 17x8 Kosei/Enkei/OZ (ie, undecided) wheels in ~+35 offset
4. Intake (maybe, my hearing is hurting already so I often can't hear nuances of stock intake/exhaust cars with a helmet on, if the BRZ is loud enough I'll leave it otherwise it'll get an intake).

After that it'll depend on what the car needs. If I want more rotation I'll go to a RSB first. Suspension I'll figure out down the road if/when it's needed.

[2fast4you]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

3. Advan AD08s in stock size (can't believe I'm saying that either)

Tell me about it. After the reviews and a few private conversations, I find myself looking at stock tire sizes as well.

My round one:

1) Brake fluid
2) Carbotech AX6 pads
3) Subaru 19mm sway bar
4) 100-200 UTQG treadwear tires in 215/45-17

[uspspro]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

First mods.. hmm..
1. Better brake fluid (ATE Superblue/Typ 200)
2. Pads, probably Carbotechs
3. Advan AD08s in stock size (can't believe I'm saying that either) on 17x8 Kosei/Enkei/OZ (ie, undecided) wheels in ~+35 offset
4. Intake (maybe, my hearing is hurting already so I often can't hear nuances of stock intake/exhaust cars with a helmet on, if the BRZ is loud enough I'll leave it otherwise it'll get an intake).

After that it'll depend on what the car needs. If I want more rotation I'll go to a RSB first. Suspension I'll figure out down the road if/when it's needed.

Dave,

Why the change of heart from 235/40/17 to 215/45/17?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by uspspro

Dave,

Why the change of heart from 235/40/17 to 215/45/17?

A few reasons.. first I am worried about making the limits too high. That's why my S2000 was boring around town (blast on the track and autocross though). Wheel selection in 17x9 is very limited still (since I don't want heavy wheels and don't want bling expensive wheels) and finally I'll let others figure out the fitment of those 17x9s once they are available first 17x8s will give me the ability to run the stock size or 235/40s if I don't mind balloning the tires quite a bit.

Once I had some AD08s (which of the top street tires have the best steering response IMO) in the stock size I'll decide whether or not I need to go larger.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by RYU

I'm concerned that if I upgrade the W/T/S I'll run the risk of taking a step backwards. We also know not all tuners actually know what they're doing and from what I see on this board a bunch of tuners are already throwing parts at this car just to see what sticks. They haven't even had a good chance at testing it yet...well maybe except for the big names like Greddy/Trust, TRD, HKS which got their test mules super early.

I'd like to get rid of those awful looking stock wheels for a visual upgrade but i'm concerned... really concerned the balance will be thrown off. Stickier tires will lead to more body roll which will increase the need for stiffer suspension and sways. Subaru/Toyota put a lot of engineering time into achieving that balance. I'm concerned once I start swapping out parts I'll screw it up!

What do you all think about that? I've been thinking about this for a few months now and it's giving me a headache. It was a no brainer before when the stock cars are generally crappy so a little improvement here and there was easy. Not so sure the BRZ is as crappy to begin with.

Some potential upgrades I'd like to consider.
* 18" lightweight wheels
* RE11s, Hankook Ventus V12. (I'll have a set of Star Specs or Azenis for the track)
* too early to decide on suspension but i'm certain the stock will have to change which, for once in my life, i'm not excited about given the concerns.

Note to the tuners: Please don't F' up this car. If you do your homework guys like me will pay for your good products.

Why 18's? If you're going to be tracking the car, 17's would be better IMO (cheaper wheels, cheaper tires, and lighter all around).

Also, lighter wheels alone won't screw anything up so it's a good first mod IMO. Same for upgraded brake pads / fluid for the track.

Come to think of it, those will likely be my first mods with the car. Then after some track time, I'll adjust the handling of the car according to my preferences.