13-16 vs 17 BRZ impressions after 2 weeks of ownership

[CSG Mike]

Original post in the build journal here:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=111506&page=6


After a few weeks of driving the car around, here are my thoughts.

- The 2017 is a HUGE improvement over the 2013-2016 car. The core of the car hasn't changed, but this is a more mature, better dialed in version of the car. Overall, this is what the car should have been, in 2013. Driving this and a 13-16 back to back, I can tell the original car was rushed, and not quite what it could have been.

- I much prefer the output of the 2013's HIDs, to the 17's LEDs. The HIDs could be leveled manually, whereas the LEDs are fixed height. The factory aim is legal, but on the high side, and regularly blinds drivers on the other side of the road. I've quite frequently been high-beamed by a driver at an opposing stoplight, who thinks I have my high beams on. Additionally, the older HIDs output a much broader spectrum of light, versus the LEDs, which put out a lot of blue, but very little yellow or green. As a result, green/white highway signs are almost black/white at night, and yellow center lines are a very pale highlighter yellow instead of a very rich orange/cheese yellow. High beam output and spread are about similar.

- The balance of the 17 is far, far superior to the 13. The 13 was an understeering pig, that only kicked the rear end out if you forced it, or made a grievous driving error (contrary to what the press would like you to believe). The 17 is much more balanced with changed spring rates and a stiffer rear sway bar (how many of you have seen me preach a stiffer rear sway on stock suspension for years now?), and I have, literally, not had VSC intervene once, while driving the car around. Even going around corners, WOT, at what I would consider somewhat questionable speeds, the VSC does not intervene, because the car is not losing control. I can get a nice bit of throttle steer around corners with the stock output, but the output is not enough to actually kick the rear out.

- The only time I've had VSC intervene, is when I've intentionally done something to see when it would kick in.

- The OEM Primacys are excellently matched to the stock output. Yes, there could be more grip. Yes, there could be faster response. No, more grip and response wouldn't make for a better stock car. Think Miata. The new Miata is intentionally designed for driver enjoyment, rather than pure performance. I believe that's why these tires were chosen. That, and MPG. The OEM tires also make a nice, audible white noise under cornering, that changes to a screeching when you start approaching, and then exceeding the limit.

- I've averaged around 30-31 MPG combined. That's taking into account a stop-and-go traffic, some light canyoning, the occasional redline sprint, and commuting on the highway. I fully expect this to drop 20-25% once I put on a stickier, non-low-rolling-resistance tire.

- I like the diameter of the steering wheel versus the older steering wheel. I don't, however, like the new material. Even though it's technically "nicer", it feels cheap. I also don't like how the back of the wheel, at the connecting points of the "T", stick out.

- The steering wheel controls are convenient, but that's about it. The Mute button is nice. Every car needs a mute button. My s2000 has one, and my 3000GT VR4 had one.

- The LSD tuning is different. This one is less harsh, or at least it seems to engage less harshly. In a 13, I would hear it chatter making u-turns when cold. This one seems to chatter less. Maybe it's a function of the 4.3 final drive, or the factory fluid, vs the thicker stuff I normally use.

- The torque dip is much narrower now. The car is much friendlier to drive around in traffic, since the powerband extends up to 4k instead of 3k like before. Coming out of the torque dip is, literally, like hitting Vtec in the s2k. You will feel it, and hear it. If you're in the torque dip, it's worse than before.

- The car seems much friendlier on 91 than before. Race gas saw virtually zero power gains. The car attempted to advance timing, failed, and decremented the IAM, temporarily losing power.

- The car wants to dump fuel at high RPMs much more aggressively, to protect the cat. Anytime you want to redline, you may need to do a few pulls to actually get full power, at least on the stock tune.

- The new leather touches in the interior look nice, especially the dash piece.

- I'm not a fan of the "piano black" bezel on the new head unit. It will scratch very easily.

- The new head unit "lags". By that, I mean the bluetooth input has a delay of about a second, whereas the 13/14 head unit does not. The Pandora integration is nice, but because the head unit is slow, trying to scroll through radio stations to find one is annoying.

[DarkSunrise]

Thanks Mike. Did you get any stock v. stock data from the track? Curious to see how much the 4.3 FD and slight power bump improve speed on the straights (if you have that info).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Thanks Mike. Did you get any stock v. stock data from the track? Curious to see how much the 4.3 FD and slight power bump improve speed on the straights (if you have that info).

I need an oil cooler to do that safely...

The FD will likely not make any real significant difference at the track, unless it either deletes a shift (good), or adds a shift (bad).

[funwheeldrive]

- The balance of the 17 is far, far superior to the 13. The 13 was an understeering pig, that only kicked the rear end out if you forced it, or made a grievous driving error (contrary to what the press would like you to believe).

What about compared to the earlier FRS/86 that was supposed to be more prone to oversteer?

Also, are the changes dramatic enough that you would recommend trading up, or do you think the aftermarket already solves the Zenki's shortcomings?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

What about compared to the earlier FRS/86 that was supposed to be more prone to oversteer?

Also, are the changes dramatic enough that you would recommend trading up, or do you think the aftermarket already solves the Zenki's shortcomings?

The earlier FRS/86 also understeers. My statement is a blanket to all 13-16 FRS/BRZ.

There's nothing the 17 does that that the aftermarket hasn't already, for the most part. It's just a much better put together package from the factory. I don't think trading for a 17 is the right answer for most owners.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Original post in the build journal here:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=111506&page=6


After a few weeks of driving the car around, here are my thoughts.

- The 2017 is a HUGE improvement over the 2013-2016 car. The core of the car hasn't changed, but this is a more mature, better dialed in version of the car. Overall, this is what the car should have been, in 2013. Driving this and a 13-16 back to back, I can tell the original car was rushed, and not quite what it could have been.

- The balance of the 17 is far, far superior to the 13. The 13 was an understeering pig, that only kicked the rear end out if you forced it, or made a grievous driving error (contrary to what the press would like you to believe). The 17 is much more balanced with changed spring rates and a stiffer rear sway bar (how many of you have seen me preach a stiffer rear sway on stock suspension for years now?), and I have, literally, not had VSC intervene once, while driving the car around. Even going around corners, WOT, at what I would consider somewhat questionable speeds, the VSC does not intervene, because the car is not losing control. I can get a nice bit of throttle steer around corners with the stock output, but the output is not enough to actually kick the rear out.

Thanks for the synopsis. Did you feel these changes mostly on track or the streets? I had a 2016 and 2017 BRZ back to back on the streets and couldn't feel much difference between the two. Having said that, my track time is minuscule compared to yours (a few HPDEs per year).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

Thanks for the synopsis. Did you feel these changes mostly on track or the streets? I had a 2016 and 2017 BRZ back to back on the streets and couldn't feel much difference between the two. Having said that, my track time is minuscule compared to yours (a few HPDEs per year).

Both.

The car, overall, has MORE grip, stock vs stock, because the dampers are far better tuned. It absorbs the imperfects in the road better, and doesn't try to artificially feel sporty by being "too stiff".

The ride of the 17 is light years better than that of a stock 13. I remember when I got in the 13 back in 2012, and thinking, this car rides really harsh. The 17 is nothing like that; it's enough to let you know what's going on and convey the sporty nature of the car, without making you miserable.

Both low and high speed compression damping profiles are vastly improved, and the high speed rebound damping is far better matched to the springs.

[Alltezza]

Do you know if the headlights(wiring wise) and front bumper is compatible with the 13-16 models?

For those that don't wanna trade up(;

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Both.

The car, overall, has MORE grip, stock vs stock, because the dampers are far better tuned. It absorbs the imperfects in the road better, and doesn't try to artificially feel sporty by being "too stiff".

The ride of the 17 is light years better than that of a stock 13. I remember when I got in the 13 back in 2012, and thinking, this car rides really harsh. The 17 is nothing like that; it's enough to let you know what's going on and convey the sporty nature of the car, without making you miserable.

Both low and high speed compression damping profiles are vastly improved, and the high speed rebound damping is far better matched to the springs.

That sounds consistent (softer and better damping) with the early impressions from the press event at Fuji Raceway. I imagine the new dampers would bolt right up to the 2013-16's?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

That sounds consistent (softer and better damping) with the early impressions from the press event at Fuji Raceway. I imagine the new dampers would bolt right up to the 2013-16's?

It should be a direct swap.

I can confidently say that most cheap coilovers will be a downgrade from stock, with the 17. the 13-16 did not set the "stock" bar very high.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It should be a direct swap.

I can confidently say that most cheap coilovers will be a downgrade from stock, with the 17. the 13-16 did not set the "stock" bar very high.

Do the 15-16's share the same dampers as the 13-14's? I recall reading that the 15's received revised dampers (and had a different part number) than the 13 and 14's.

[Djratrap]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It should be a direct swap.

I can confidently say that most cheap coilovers will be a downgrade from stock, with the 17. the 13-16 did not set the "stock" bar very high.

This is excellent news, my stocks have 96k on them and Seattle roads(cobblestone and potholes) have not been nice to them. I am starting to feel the wear more and more. I was thinking about upgrading to Bilstein b6 shocks with stock springs, but now i will prowl the forums for 2017 owners who swap their stockys out.

[exE36M3]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I can confidently say that most cheap coilovers will be a downgrade from stock...

Isn't this a truth about cheap coil-overs to begin with?

FWIW - we exchanged PMs about a year ago about some alignment specs for street. Took your advice, been loving the settings over the last year. Re-thanking you.

[darthpnoy1984]

Thank you Mike for sharing your thoughts on the 17 model. I was toying with the idea of upgrading my suspension on my 15 model and going coilovers. I just might wait instead to get OEM 17 sway bars and suspension instead as an upgrade since I daily drive my car quite a bit and some canyon driving once in a while.