Which SC to choose: Cosworth Vs. Edelbrock Vs. Harrop?

[UNREAL]

Dears,

My question is:
What are the differences between the following SC's Cosworth Stage 2.0 Vs. Edelbrock e-force Vs. Harrops TVS1320.

Through my own research I found out few differences :

1- Cosworth is using OEM airbox with a looong intake path to the back of the manifold, while Edelbrockare using a massive air filter box with K&N filter that connects directly to the throttle body in front of the manifold, Harrop's TVS1320 on the other hand is in between, it has the short front connection between the Manifold and the OEM air box but with a higher flow drop in air-filter.

2- Both Cosworth and Harrops SC's use internal inter-coolers within the intake manifold... Edelbrock e-force I'm not sure if it has a similar internal cooling units.

3- Edelbrock claiming 242 WHP (I'm not sure on which type of fuel), Cosworth claims 280 BHP (I'm not sure on which type of fuel), and Harrops Claims 244 WHP on 93 Octane

That's all that I can think of... Please help me out to choose between the three... Why do you think any of them is better than the other two?

With many thanks in advance for your help.

UNREAL

[ATL BRZ]

Cosworth uses a smaller blower with less headroom than Edelbrock and Harrop, so I wouldn't even consider it.

As far as Edelbrock vs Harrop: there's already a thread comparing them: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2776887

[BigFatFlip]

RE Edelbrock intercooler, same set up as the other two, water to air intercooled. Edelbrock has 1 large heat exchanger in the manifold while the other two have 2 smaller ones

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[weederr33]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Cosworth uses a smaller blower with less headroom than Edelbrock and Harrop, so I wouldn't even consider it.

As far as Edelbrock vs Harrop: there's already a thread comparing them: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2776887

According to @Matt@Cosworth, the Cosworth kit can spin just as quick as the Harrop or Edelbrock kits. So the headroom isn't an issue.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Dears,

My question is:
What are the differences between the following SC's Cosworth Stage 2.0 Vs. Edelbrock e-force Vs. Harrops TVS1320.

That's all that I can think of... Please help me out to choose between the three... Why do you think any of them is better than the other two?

With many thanks in advance for your help.

UNREAL

The Cosworth kit is rated at the crank. It equates to around 250-260 whp.

I am biased, but I will say the reasons I chose the Cosworth kit over the others was for several reasons. Cosmetics (which is subjective of course); I didn't care too much for the looks of the Edelbrock, but thought the Harrop and Cossie looked pretty OEM.
At the time of purchase, the Harrop wasn't available for another 6 months or so, so that was out. Though I'll admit it seems like a great kit.
But the biggest reason for me, was the shear amount of R&D Cosworth put into their kit. Since I daily mine, I wanted it to be as reliable as possible. Outside of a slight tweak in my tune, there have been no issues with the kit. I think it just comes down to your budget, and which you think looks best. They are all great kits and I haven't heard much about them. Of course, I don't really pay attention to the Edelbrock thread....

Just my two cents.

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Cosworth uses a smaller blower with less headroom than Edelbrock and Harrop, so I wouldn't even consider it.

As far as Edelbrock vs Harrop: there's already a thread comparing them: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2776887

Thanks man, a very useful input.
Regarding the smaller blower, I think it was picked by Cosworth on purpose as it has less parasitic effect on the engine and is easier to spin.

For me Cosworth is still a viable option, because:
1- The installer that I'm planning to work with is an authorized Cosworth dealer too, but I think he is willing to install any of the three.
2- They are the only ones of the three who went to change the Engine Thermostat... I'm not sure how would that help in the overall thermal management of the kit.

The main down points: for Cosworth are:
1- The inverted throttle position and the long intake path.
2- Bloody expensive for a relatively little gain in stock form + The fact the best fuel available where I live is 95 RON (91 US Octane), which will mean even weaker output than the 280 BHP announced by them.

This is really confusing all 3 are from super reputable companies... but each of them has different set of pros and cons

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

RE Edelbrock intercooler, same set up as the other two, water to air intercooled. Edelbrock has 1 large heat exchanger in the manifold while the other two have 2 smaller ones

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

good point, I didn't know that.

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by weederr33

The Cosworth kit is rated at the crank. It equates to around 250-260 whp.

I am biased, but I will say the reasons I chose the Cosworth kit over the others was for several reasons. Cosmetics (which is subjective of course); I didn't care too much for the looks of the Edelbrock, but thought the Harrop and Cossie looked pretty OEM.
At the time of purchase, the Harrop wasn't available for another 6 months or so, so that was out. Though I'll admit it seems like a great kit.
But the biggest reason for me, was the shear amount of R&D Cosworth put into their kit. Since I daily mine, I wanted it to be as reliable as possible. Outside of a slight tweak in my tune, there have been no issues with the kit. I think it just comes down to your budget, and which you think looks best. They are all great kits and I haven't heard much about them. Of course, I don't really pay attention to the Edelbrock thread....

Just my two cents.

Valuable input, thank you. in my previous reply I stated the pros and cons of Cosworth kit from my point of view and situation.
As a Cosworth owner, Would you comment on them please?

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Valuable input, thank you. in my previous reply I stated the pros and cons of Cosworth kit from my point of view and situation.
As a Cosworth owner, Would you comment on them please?

The intake piping, I cannot comment on if it would make a difference or not. I honestly don't know. I'm sure it could be optimized to be shorter, but given the design, I think that's why Cosworth didn't do something similar to Harrop.

As for price, yeah it is damn expensive. Though I don't regret it at all. I'd say it's because you're paying for the Name and the R&D. haha. Still, 80 hp over stock isn't too bad. Unless you're going to mad power. Which in that case, turbo, engine swap, or different car. Also, Cosworth designed the kit with the intentions of it being reliable long term. People run crazy power on stock internals, but it's just a matter of how long.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

The main down points: for Cosworth are:
1- The inverted throttle position and the long intake path.
2- Bloody expensive for a relatively little gain in stock form + The fact the best fuel available where I live is 95 RON (91 US Octane), which will mean even weaker output than the 280 BHP announced by them.

1) The TVS design available at the time of the Cossie development meant that only rear intake was possible. I agree it's not the neatest but it likely has no noticeable performance negatives.
2) The gains on 95RON on any of the kits are likely to be the same. I would say that the Cossie is ~240whp and I'm fairly certain that was done on 98/99RON.

The Cossie TVS900 is less parasitic drain on the engine, to get the higher power outputs will require to spin outside of it's ideal efficiency range, but it's said that the heat exchangers are designed to deal with this. The TVS1320 should never sit outside of the ideal efficiency range, so will generate less heat, but it's a larger blower it spin in the 1st place.

If I were to consider replacing my Sprintex, my preference in order would be:
1. Harrop
2. Cosworth
3. Edelbrock

That's based on all things; cost, looks and performance. I'm in the UK for reference.

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by weederr33

The intake piping, I cannot comment on if it would make a difference or not. I honestly don't know. I'm sure it could be optimized to be shorter, but given the design, I think that's why Cosworth didn't do something similar to Harrop.

As for price, yeah it is damn expensive. Though I don't regret it at all. I'd say it's because you're paying for the Name and the R&D. haha. Still, 80 hp over stock isn't too bad. Unless you're going to mad power. Which in that case, turbo, engine swap, or different car. Also, Cosworth designed the kit with the intentions of it being reliable long term. People run crazy power on stock internals, but it's just a matter of how long.

Thank you again for your reply...
Considering that i'm living in a super hot desert environment (we get winter for like two months every year and the rest of the months are between summerish to scorching hell weather)... do you think Cosworth upgraded engine thermostat is a plus?

Originally Posted by Kodename47

1) The TVS design available at the time of the Cossie development meant that only rear intake was possible. I agree it's not the neatest but it likely has no noticeable performance negatives.
2) The gains on 95RON on any of the kits are likely to be the same. I would say that the Cossie is ~240whp and I'm fairly certain that was done on 98/99RON.

The Cossie TVS900 is less parasitic drain on the engine, to get the higher power outputs will require to spin outside of it's ideal efficiency range, but it's said that the heat exchangers are designed to deal with this. The TVS1320 should never sit outside of the ideal efficiency range, so will generate less heat, but it's a larger blower it spin in the 1st place.

If I were to consider replacing my Sprintex, my preference in order would be:
1. Harrop
2. Cosworth
3. Edelbrock

That's based on all things; cost, looks and performance. I'm in the UK for reference.

Thank you sir for your valuable input...

1- TVS900 Vs. TVS1320
2- Engine Thermostat Vs. OEM Thermostat
3- Drop in Air-Filter Vs. Customized Airbox
4- Short Intake Vs. Highway-long Intake path
5- Availability authorized installer/tuner Vs. 1st time installation and tuning
6- Sitting Lower on the engine bay vs. Sitting relatively very high
7- Availability of other Supporting Mod's Vs. Kit only.
8- Smog Legal Vs. ???
9- R&D time spent on the kit in a lab Vs. Actual time racing the kit daily


So many contradicting variables... and no kit is perfect or let's say 99% compliant.

My goals are...
1- Ultimate Reliability for DD
2- Tolerance to hot weather Plus low quality fuel (95 RON/ 91 US Octane)
3- 0-100 in 5 Sec
4- 350 BHP - 300 WHP
5- Stealth looking, so the incompetent dealership wont notice it immediately, and void my warranty.

Note: My Car is a brand new 2016 Toyota GT 86 AT with less than 200km on the Odo (My previous 2013 86 was totaled while parked outside my house and only had 16K km on the Odo).

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

2- Engine Thermostat Vs. OEM Thermostat - You can buy a Cosworth Thermostat as a standalone item, as I have
---
5- Availability authorized installer/tuner Vs. 1st time installation and tuning - The Harrop is an easy install, easier than the Cosworth I've been told. I'd expect similar from the Edelbrock
---
7- Availability of other Supporting Mod's Vs. Kit only. - I'd say that this is the same on all kits

The tolerance to hot weather would suggest that you would benefit from the thermostat. 300+whp is going to rely on keeping things cool and having the right compression ratio for the fuel quality. I would say that all are capable of that goal if setup correctly.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Thank you again for your reply...
Considering that i'm living in a super hot desert environment (we get winter for like two months every year and the rest of the months are between summerish to scorching hell weather)... do you think Cosworth upgraded engine thermostat is a plus?



Thank you sir for your valuable input...

I think it's a nice decision by Cosworth, but I don't think it will help lower your overall engine temperatures. I know that even during hot summers here, my car runs just fine. However, I don't drive it very hard in the heat.

[Matt@Cosworth]

the low temp thermostat will lower engine temps so it buys you head room in hot climates , it does not increase the cooling capacity but will buy you time

and the stock airbox doesn't pose a restriction until 300Bhp ( crank) and we measured no pressure drop over the 'long' intake at this power level
the throttle on the other hand does pose a restriction
I should also point out that the TVS 1320 is not capable of generating any more boost pressure than the 900 unit
yes it reaches the boost limit quicker but its the same pressure ratio for a greater frictional penalty and cost

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I think it's a nice decision by Cosworth, but I don't think it will help lower your overall engine temperatures. I know that even during hot summers here, my car runs just fine. However, I don't drive it very hard in the heat.

Originally Posted by Matt@Cosworth

the low temp thermostat will lower engine temps so it buys you head room in hot climates , it does not increase the cooling capacity but will buy you time

and the stock airbox doesn't pose a restriction until 300Bhp ( crank) and we measured no pressure drop over the 'long' intake at this power level
the throttle on the other hand does pose a restriction
I should also point out that the TVS 1320 is not capable of generating any more boost pressure than the 900 unit
yes it reaches the boost limit quicker but its the same pressure ratio for a greater frictional penalty and cost

Thanks Matt for your input on this thread...
1- The OEM airbox becomes restrictive after 300 BHP... I was aiming for 300 WHP.
2- Do you recommend a throttle-body replacement?
3- TVS900 Vs. TVS1320... reaching the full boost early means having more power in mid RPM range? I hate having the power stuck waaay up in the rev range.
I DD my car to work and low to mid range power and torque is a main target (After all that's why I chose screw-type superchargers instead of Turbos) to have as much as possible low to Med range Torque and Power.