CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[jvincent]

I was going to suggest the same thing.

[Slick]

Any feedback/opinions on HotBits DT1 or DT2 coilovers?

[NissanGuy]

I finally took your advice and used a less conservative alignment for my -otherwise stock- car: Went from 35 to 46 minutes camber front, kept 55 camber rear.

The understeer is a bit less severe now, and the steering has just a hair more feel. An impromptu drift session around my dealership shows me that the car feels more natural now, once the grip has been exceeded. The biggest difference, which isn't immediately apparent, is the tire wear: Before, I would cook the front tires and induce understeer after roughly 5 miles. Now, the tires heat evenly and I can drive consistently. In fact, I prefer the way the car acts when all 4 tires are pretty much cooked.

The downside is, as I feared, reduced transitional grip from the front end. So, my prejudices can at least remain intact.

I found one guy complaining that his FR-S oversteers under braking. Do they all do that? My complaint is that my BRZ understeers under braking, I might just have to get some FRS springs...

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

I finally took your advice and used a less conservative alignment for my -otherwise stock- car: Went from 35 to 46 minutes camber front, kept 55 camber rear.

The understeer is a bit less severe now, and the steering has just a hair more feel. An impromptu drift session around my dealership shows me that the car feels more natural now, once the grip has been exceeded. The biggest difference, which isn't immediately apparent, is the tire wear: Before, I would cook the front tires and induce understeer after roughly 5 miles. Now, the tires heat evenly and I can drive consistently. In fact, I prefer the way the car acts when all 4 tires are pretty much cooked.

The downside is, as I feared, reduced transitional grip from the front end. So, my prejudices can at least remain intact.

I found one guy complaining that his FR-S oversteers under braking. Do they all do that? My complaint is that my BRZ understeers under braking, I might just have to get some FRS springs...

That's good to hear. Still not a lot of camber though! Get better dampers to improve transitions.

The oversteer under braking for the other gentleman is likely a toe problem.

- Andy

[SomeoneWhoIsntMe]

Wow. If you can perceive that much of a difference between .5° and .75°, imagine 1.5° or *gasp* even 2°

[NissanGuy]

Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe

Wow. If you can perceive that much of a difference between .5° and .75°, imagine 1.5° or *gasp* even 2°

Haha, I'm splitting hairs for sure. But, 2 degrees is shampoo-drinkingly crazy.

My car came with readings ranging from +20 minutes to -1 degree 50 minutes camber and it was nearly undrivable. The excess rear camber made it impossible to quickly merge into traffic without going sideways on these crap SF roadways. I bet 2 degrees is fine if you have super sticky tires, but then again what isn't?

[bfsnail]

I loved the way the car handled when I first got it but wanted a more agressive look more and was willing to take a hit in handling/comfort in order to achieve that. I ended up installing Eibach Sportline Springs, XXR 527 wheels in 18x8.75 +35 and Firehawk wide oval Indy 500 tires in 225/40/18.

Upon completeing this install the car didn't handle as well as I expected and I thought it was because of a bad alignment so I installed SPC camber bolts in the front and lower control arms in the rear and got a factory alignment with a small amount of extra negative camber in the front.

It helped, but was still not where I want it to be. I feel like the overall traction, especially while accellerating, has decreased dramatically. Also I felt like the car used to transition from gripping the road to sliding smoothly but now its very erratic, sudden and not confidence inspiring in the slightest.

I'm fairly certain that my problem either lies in the sportlines and stock dampers, which are from what I've heard over sprung and under damped, or the cheaper tires that are semi stretched. I read multiple reviews about both the springs and tires and a vast majority of them were extremely positive so I was pretty surprised that I ended up where I am now.

So would the above combination bring me to the state that I feel the car is in now? Or is there possibly something else amiss that I haven't thought about?

My car is my DD with the occassional spirited drive and I plan on getting the Fortune Auto 500s and Pilot Super Sports in a 235/245 width which should give me an excellent DD fun car. That being said, which of these two will fix more of my problems and make the biggest improvement?

[7thgear]

what the fuck are Firehawk wide oval Indy 500 tires



you're absolutely sure your alignment is good? You say you did a factory setting, but was it at a good shop? Did you get a printout back?

[bfsnail]

Firestone Firehawk Tires They have pretty good reviews, especially for the price. I thought I was getting a good deal...

I did get a printout from the shop. -1.3 camber and 0 toe in the front and -1.2 camber and +0.1 toe in the rear

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by bfsnail

Firestone Firehawk Tires They have pretty good reviews, especially for the price. I thought I was getting a good deal...

I did get a printout from the shop. -1.3 camber and 0 toe in the front and -1.2 camber and +0.1 toe in the rear

the tires themselves are most likely pretty good, especially if they're branded as a high performance summer tire


I was just making a funny cuz the tire genereally falls outside our usual spectrum


now, that +0.1 toe (out) is what is having me worried, as toe out makes the car much more sensitive


although not sure what 0.1 is? degrees?

[bfsnail]

The printout is from a local Firestone and just has the Toe listed as +0.10 degrees. I don't know what that is in inches or if that is in or out...

The specs I was trying to go off of are in this thread http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11016

My previous alignment had 0 toe in the rear and had a lot of the same behavior

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by bfsnail

I loved the way the car handled when I first got it but wanted a more agressive look more and was willing to take a hit in handling/comfort in order to achieve that. I ended up installing Eibach Sportline Springs, XXR 527 wheels in 18x8.75 +35 and Firehawk wide oval Indy 500 tires in 225/40/18.

Upon completeing this install the car didn't handle as well as I expected and I thought it was because of a bad alignment so I installed SPC camber bolts in the front and lower control arms in the rear and got a factory alignment with a small amount of extra negative camber in the front.

It helped, but was still not where I want it to be. I feel like the overall traction, especially while accellerating, has decreased dramatically. Also I felt like the car used to transition from gripping the road to sliding smoothly but now its very erratic, sudden and not confidence inspiring in the slightest.

I'm fairly certain that my problem either lies in the sportlines and stock dampers, which are from what I've heard over sprung and under damped, or the cheaper tires that are semi stretched. I read multiple reviews about both the springs and tires and a vast majority of them were extremely positive so I was pretty surprised that I ended up where I am now.

So would the above combination bring me to the state that I feel the car is in now? Or is there possibly something else amiss that I haven't thought about?

My car is my DD with the occassional spirited drive and I plan on getting the Fortune Auto 500s and Pilot Super Sports in a 235/245 width which should give me an excellent DD fun car. That being said, which of these two will fix more of my problems and make the biggest improvement?

Springs are too low, wheels are too heavy, tires are too stretched.

+.1 toe would be toe in, that's a bit more than I'd recommend.

- Andy

[bfsnail]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Springs are too low, wheels are too heavy, tires are too stretched.

+.1 toe would be toe in, that's a bit more than I'd recommend.

- Andy

While I appreciate how much you guys contribute to the community, this post is pretty worthless. I already know that the springs are not ideal with the stock dampers, there is no way that the slightly heavier wheels have any negligible effect on the problems i'm having, and I already know that the tires are slightly stretched.

Also since I have "a bit more" toe than you would recommend, what exactly would you recommend.

Also back to the original question of my post, which would make the largest improvement, the coils or new tires?

Blunt, I know, but I already ****ed up once and am working on fixing it and the standard "you need to spend 5k+ on the kw v3s, forged wheels, and the best tires you can buy" is getting old. Especially for my DD car.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by bfsnail

While I appreciate how much you guys contribute to the community, this post is pretty worthless. I already know that the springs are not ideal with the stock dampers, there is no way that the slightly heavier wheels have any negligible effect on the problems i'm having, and I already know that the tires are slightly stretched.

Also since I have "a bit more" toe than you would recommend, what exactly would you recommend.

Also back to the original question of my post, which would make the largest improvement, the coils or new tires?

Blunt, I know, but I already ****ed up once and am working on fixing it and the standard "you need to spend 5k+ on the kw v3s, forged wheels, and the best tires you can buy" is getting old. Especially for my DD car.

Sorry if that came across wrong...I was trying to keep it simple.

With regard to the springs its not a valving thing IMO. They're just too low...they're a style spring. Adding Konis will help a little but they'll still be too low and you'll lack travel.

Solution: almost any other spring including stock.

For the wheels, heavy wheels can absolutely make a car feel sluggish in handling, especially on stock dampers.

Solution: lighter wheels that aren't so wide.

The rear toe, it's just a little more than I'd recommend.

Solution: as close to zero as possible. A tiny bit of toe in is good, like a 1/4 of what you have now.

Your tires don't concern me nearly as much as the three things that I mentioned in this post and my previous.

I'm not trying to sell you anything. Those springs when pushed, especially on stretched tires will result in sudden loss of grip. Coilovers on their own will help but I'd also try to find any wheel tire package that isnt stretched. Whether that means new wheels or new tires is up to you but I'd recommend new wheels. Easier to sell off wheels than tires.

Just my thoughts, hope that helps.

- Andy