Nameless Performance Equal Length Stepped Header

[Revolutions Performance]

Is nameless advertising the coating as a thermal barrier or just a ceramic coating? They are two different things as I found out when researching coatings for our products.

[FrsDuke]

Originally Posted by Revolutions Performance

Is nameless advertising the coating as a thermal barrier or just a ceramic coating? They are two different things as I found out when researching coatings for our products.

From their page
"Optional ceramic coating is the best in the business - featuring a two layer, twice cured process that radically reduces surface temperatures and heat transfer out of the tubing while at the same time improving exhaust gas velocity by retaining heat inside of the header. Both layers of coating are on the inside and outside of the tubing (so if you cross sectioned the tube, it'd be two layers of ceramic, one layer of stainless, two layers of ceramic). It is highly recommended for performance, longevity in salted/corrosive environments as well as overall reduction in engine bay heat. As a reference, this is what people coat turbine housings with. It's the most aggressive and resilient coating on the market, bar none. "

What has me pondering things is a number of buyers with the coating voicing concerns and it being black. Figure I'd just give folks the chance to compare.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by FrsDuke

What would be surprising is if the coated headers were worse for under hood temps than the uncoated which is my suspicion. I would rather be wrong on this, but that is my concern.

I can't imagine how you could begin to come to that notion. How do you figure an insulator could extract more heat than is present in the base iron/steel or aluminum header? It would have to be at most equal to or less than.

The reasoning for improving gas flow is by using the insulation to retain high temps already present to retain higher port velocity. If the heat is retained in the gas, it is not being lost as ambient temperature under the hood as with an uncoated header. Basic laws of Thermodynamics prohibit the coating from creating more heat than is already present when untreated.

Your theory is basically that all race teams that use coated headers are spending more time and money to actually make their cars slower?

Maybe this will help:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...amic_coatings/

[FrsDuke]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

I can't imagine how you could begin to come to that notion. How do you figure an insulator could extract more heat than is present in the base iron/steel or aluminum header? It would have to be at most equal to or less than.

The reasoning for improving gas flow is by using the insulation to retain high temps already present to retain higher port velocity. If the heat is retained in the gas, it is not being lost as ambient temperature under the hood as with an uncoated header. Basic laws of Thermodynamics prohibit the coating from creating more heat than is already present when untreated.

Your theory is basically that all race teams that use coated headers are spending more time and money to actually make their cars slower?

Maybe this will help:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...amic_coatings/

As stated before there are two types of coatings available and black radiates more heat and it's just a suspicion. Nothing more. I just want to see what difference the coating makes. I don't understand why it is such a huge point of contention.

Let me rephrase my entire line of inquiry. Let's find out just how awesome the ceramic coating really is! I got uncoated numbers above lets see some coated numbers.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by FrsDuke

As stated before there are two types of coatings available and black radiates more heat and it's just a suspicion. Nothing more. I just want to see what difference the coating makes. I don't understand why it is such a huge point of contention.

Let me rephrase my entire line of inquiry. Let's find out just how awesome the ceramic coating really is! I got uncoated numbers above lets see some coated numbers.

I think I remember Gmooker (remember him?) actually did this with a P&L header before he was banned. He had temps +20-30 degrees hotter on his untreated exhaust parts (overpipe back) than he did on his coated header. I'll try to see if I can find his post.

[FrsDuke]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

I think I remember Gmooker (remember him?) actually did this with a P&L header before he was banned. He had temps +20-30 degrees hotter on his untreated exhaust parts (overpipe back) than he did on his coated header. I'll try to see if I can find his post.

Again I'm not saying ceramic coating doesn't work. I want to know how well the coating on the nameless header works

[FR-S Matt]

My coating on my header definitely reduces temps. I compared how hot my end of my overpipe was to my front pipe and it was significantly cooler. Coating has been used for many many years. It also helps against cracking in the later years from long term high heat exposure.

[Ranatsu]

Originally Posted by FrsDuke

Well using a raytek mt6 mini temp laser thermometer I measured all over the header from the runners to the collector and after an hour of driving and 10 min at idle with the hood closed I'm seeing temps from 190-240F at various places with the header surfaces closest to the intake sitting at 190-210 F. This is an uncoated nameless header. I also checked temps on the surrounding surfaces and didn't find any surface above 200F with the underside of intake bits sitting below 180F

So after sitting at idle for 10 min those are the temps I measured on an uncoated header.

Now if someone with a coated header would like to do the same that would be great and give folks an idea of what the coating is doing in terms of radiant heat.

I have the ceramic coated manifold and I measured temps yesterday with a Fluke IR Thermometer. The Takeda intake box was sitting around 150F. I'll do it again today because I didn't think to write anything down as far as locations and temps. Things still definitely get hot.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Ranatsu

I have the ceramic coated manifold and I measured temps yesterday with a Fluke IR Thermometer. The Takeda intake box was sitting around 150F. I'll do it again today because I didn't think to write anything down as far as locations and temps. Things still definitely get hot.

Did you grab your specific pre-install temps or are you comparing against already posted temps?

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

I think I remember Gmooker (remember him?) actually did this with a P&L header before he was banned. He had temps +20-30 degrees hotter on his untreated exhaust parts (overpipe back) than he did on his coated header. I'll try to see if I can find his post.

How could we forget? Grueling endurance testing in the deserts of Arizona!

[acro]

Originally Posted by FrsDuke

As stated before there are two types of coatings available and black radiates more heat and it's just a suspicion. Nothing more. I just want to see what difference the coating makes. I don't understand why it is such a huge point of contention.

Let me rephrase my entire line of inquiry. Let's find out just how awesome the ceramic coating really is! I got uncoated numbers above lets see some coated numbers.

black doesnt radiate more heat it actually absorbs.

[NickFRS]

Coating producing more heat. That's why people use it. More heat soak more power...

Just kidding.......

[Ranatsu]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Did you grab your specific pre-install temps or are you comparing against already posted temps?



How could we forget? Grueling endurance testing in the deserts of Arizona!

I'm mostly comparing to what he was getting. I've checked before in the past at Autocross events and I feel like the intake was around 120 or so if just sitting at idle in grid.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Ranatsu

I'm mostly comparing to what he was getting. I've checked before in the past at Autocross events and I feel like the intake was around 120 or so if just sitting at idle in grid.

By any chance have you logged IATs before and after install?

[DatApex]

I'm on the waiting list for the next batch of coated headers, so when I get mine if we're still debating this I'll grab pre-install stock un-coated header temps and post install coated header temps.