Engine internals for 500-600 HP turbo

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by gtengr

What advice are you getting against flow restrictors? From what I've read it seems the oil pump mods aren't very effective because the heads absorb the majority of the flowrate increase.

My engine builder (Top Torque in Melbourne) thinks that shimming the pump and installing some flow restrictors to the heads will get me the oil pressures I want. They do all the engine warranty work for Subaru in Melbourne Australia as well as build engines for the Toyota GT86 race series. They've seen lots of FA20 engines but all the ones they see and build must be built to OEM specs - even the race engines. They seem to know their stuff but haven't build a FA20 to hold this sort of power. They believe there is more than sufficient flow to the heads so restricting it a little to ensure oil pressure at the mains/rods is the best approach, and that shimming with tighter tolerances on bearings will all improve oil pressures.

Talking with Outfront Motorsports they said that just shimming the pump is all that is needed (together with the right bearing clearances). They also recommended the Reimax high capacity pump but didn't normally use them as they get OK pressures just from shimming the pump. They don't put flow restrictors to the heads.

Spoke to Element Tuning. They tell me they have a secret sauce to this but won't share the details. Was considering buying an engine from them but the core charge and freight (both of which I avoid using a local builder in Australia) made it uneconomical.

Spoke to Deshele in Sydney who build lots of high power FA20 engines but he has a three month lead time before he could start the job.

Spoke to Alldrive Subaroo in Sydney who also do some FA20 race engines. Advice was stock pump, shimmed with race bearings and clearances. No head restrictions.

I think I'm going talk again with my engine builder when I'm back from my trip. I'm leaning to just shimming the OEM pump, King race bearings with appropriate clearances without any flow restrictions to the head: unless I can learn more about options and combo of the high flow pump with head restrictors combo's.

[Irace86.2.0]

What is your plan for oil starvation during heavy and prolonged cornering? Dry sump or just baffling?

Maybe you mentioned it, but are you getting the heads done, port n polish job, etc?

What about the piston rings? Do they automatically have ideal gapping, or do they have OEM tolerances, and they plan to open them up a bit?

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Hags86

My engine builder (Top Torque in Melbourne) thinks that shimming the pump and installing some flow restrictors to the heads will get me the oil pressures I want. They do all the engine warranty work for Subaru in Melbourne Australia as well as build engines for the Toyota GT86 race series. They've seen lots of FA20 engines but all the ones they see and build must be built to OEM specs - even the race engines. They seem to know their stuff but haven't build a FA20 to hold this sort of power. They believe there is more than sufficient flow to the heads so restricting it a little to ensure oil pressure at the mains/rods is the best approach, and that shimming with tighter tolerances on bearings will all improve oil pressures.

Talking with Outfront Motorsports they said that just shimming the pump is all that is needed (together with the right bearing clearances). They also recommended the Reimax high capacity pump but didn't normally use them as they get OK pressures just from shimming the pump. They don't put flow restrictors to the heads.

Spoke to Element Tuning. They tell me they have a secret sauce to this but won't share the details. Was considering buying an engine from them but the core charge and freight (both of which I avoid using a local builder in Australia) made it uneconomical.

Spoke to Deshele in Sydney who build lots of high power FA20 engines but he has a three month lead time before he could start the job.

Spoke to Alldrive Subaroo in Sydney who also do some FA20 race engines. Advice was stock pump, shimmed with race bearings and clearances. No head restrictions.

I think I'm going talk again with my engine builder when I'm back from my trip. I'm leaning to just shimming the OEM pump, King race bearings with appropriate clearances without any flow restrictions to the head: unless I can learn more about options and combo of the high flow pump with head restrictors combo's.

I see. Thanks for explaining. MotoIQ is also looking into the oiling of high hp builds: http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...te-Part-2.aspx

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

What is your plan for oil starvation during heavy and prolonged cornering? Dry sump or just baffling?

Have a Moroso baffle

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Maybe you mentioned it, but are you getting the heads done, port n polish job, etc?

The plan was to keep OEM valves with GSC springs and not port as I'm not chasing stupid power. But the engine builder just checked the valves and a few are bent up to 0.005" so I have added Supertech valves to the build list in standard size. Will probably do a light port/polish given I'm now spending more on the head than I'd planned so again, just get it all done now.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

What about the piston rings? Do they automatically have ideal gapping, or do they have OEM tolerances, and they plan to open them up a bit?

Rings are provided by CP Carillo with the pistons. I don't know what gaps etc they are recommending but I'll report back when I have those details.

[Surok]

Hi Hags, what you have there will be good enough, just make sure you get a fuel system to keep up with the requirements of the motor. your future build is a lot like what i have currently.

it kicks sideways at 90kph in the dry in 3rd as it comes onto boost.


oh and the oil pump gear for 600$ does work.

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by Surok

oh and the oil pump gear for 600$ does work.

Do you track your car? What sort of oil pressure do you get at high revs and high temps?

[Surok]

yes i take mine to eastern creek and wakefield park. at 6000RPm its around 85 PSI i think stock is 60.

[FRS Justin]

Oh wow some of this post is crazy talk...….

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Oh wow some of this post is crazy talk...….

Care to elaborate?

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by Hags86

Care to elaborate?

I would gladly speak with you on the phone but I do not post my findings anymore do to "That one Guy" who wants to argue about everything and his band of followers who love to chime in. Of course most of them have stock na cars but somehow still know how to boost big numbers. Ive made 700 plus for a couple years now no issues until I try for 800plus

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by Surok

yes i take mine to eastern creek and wakefield park. at 6000RPm its around 85 PSI i think stock is 60.

What oil weight and at what temp aprox?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Oh wow some of this post is crazy talk...….

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

I would gladly speak with you on the phone but I do not post my findings anymore do to "That one Guy" who wants to argue about everything and his band of followers who love to chime in. Of course most of them have stock na cars but somehow still know how to boost big numbers. Ive made 700 plus for a couple years now no issues until I try for 800plus

Probably best to make negative comments via PM or over the phone like you mentioned instead of just making a negative claim then refusing to address that claim here. It isn’t constructive.

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by Kiske

What oil weight and at what temp aprox?

Yes. I'd like to know this too. Those numbers are fantastic but I suspect that is with cool oil, not 10 laps in.

I'd be very happy if i could achieve that with oil at 115C on a 40 or 50 weight.

[FRS Justin]

I wouldn't say I made a negative comment. I just disagree with what others are saying based off R&D and doing it. (EDIT) as I made a mistake concerning my previous post it has not been deleted)

As far as constructive is concerned IMO its not constructive mislead people by assumed knowledge. The poor soul who buys into your self proclaimed expertise is the real victim but that's just my opinion. Who am I anyway, Just a guy who has done it and continues to do it.