[2017 BRZ] Still lost with tires, looking for help

[cytogenesis]

Hi everyone.

A little over a month ago I joined the family and am looking to get some new wheels and tires but am having trouble making decisions based on fitment and performance as I am a newbie.

I would like tires and wheels that:
1) fit a stock 2017 BRZ limited (if spacers are needed that's fine)
2) that don't affect performance/handling
3) don't poke out of the body
4) Also, if possible, i would really like to minimize the tire sidewall/wheel ratio on the side of the tire if at all possible (wheels look big compared to tires)

Anything that comes in black that fits these criteria works for me. I've looked into Konig Oversteers and 720 Form GTF1s but am unsure if these would affect handling/performance.

Sorry for the really specific criteria and long post, but this is probably why finding something I like has been difficult. Any help is much much appreciated, i've been looking into this for weeks with no turnaround.

[Spuds]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7535

2nd and 3rd post are going to be useful for wheels. Find the specs that seem right for your taste, then look at what you can get in that spec.

Then start looking for info on tires.

[JazzleSAURUS]

What are your plans with the car? Do you have examples of fitment, (both tire to fender, and tire/wheel ratio) that you DO like/would like to replicate?

When you say you don't want to affect performance/handling, do you mean you want it to handle EXACTLY how is does now? No better/no worse?

When you say you don't want them to poke out, do you want them to be as flush as possible without going past, or just 'as long as they aren't poking I don't care'

I'm a huge fan of the Enkei wheels, as they are really good quality for the money, (and meet your 'black' criteria.)

If you want a nice little upgrade while you're buying wheels and tires, take a look at something like this:
Enkei RPF1, 17x8, between +35 and +42, depending on if you intend to lower at all. Go square, then add 3mm slip on spacers in the rear and it will look very even, and you won't need bolt on spacers, or extended lugs, and you won't need two different wheel offsets.

I really like a 225/45-17 Bridgestone S-04 or Michelin PSS on those wheels. There will be about the same amount of 'stretch' as the stock wheel and tire package has, but the tires will be a nice upgrade, offering stiffer sidewalls, and more grip!

The RPF1's look nice, are light, and are pretty strong without breaking the bank. Most of their wheels do pretty well also, but there's a lot of personal preference.

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

What are your plans with the car? Do you have examples of fitment, (both tire to fender, and tire/wheel ratio) that you DO like/would like to replicate?

When you say you don't want to affect performance/handling, do you mean you want it to handle EXACTLY how is does now? No better/no worse?

When you say you don't want them to poke out, do you want them to be as flush as possible without going past, or just 'as long as they aren't poking I don't care'

I'm a huge fan of the Enkei wheels, as they are really good quality for the money, (and meet your 'black' criteria.)

If you want a nice little upgrade while you're buying wheels and tires, take a look at something like this:
Enkei RPF1, 17x8, between +35 and +42, depending on if you intend to lower at all. Go square, then add 3mm slip on spacers in the rear and it will look very even, and you won't need bolt on spacers, or extended lugs, and you won't need two different wheel offsets.

I really like a 225/45-17 Bridgestone S-04 or Michelin PSS on those wheels. There will be about the same amount of 'stretch' as the stock wheel and tire package has, but the tires will be a nice upgrade, offering stiffer sidewalls, and more grip!

The RPF1's look nice, are light, and are pretty strong without breaking the bank. Most of their wheels do pretty well also, but there's a lot of personal preference.

My plans for the car are for the time being going to be exterior. The only other thing I can think of that I want to do are things like a diffuser, side lips, front bumper lip, etc. Here's a couple builds with good examples of fitment that I'm looking for in tire/wheel ratio:

https://wheelwell.com/andrew-cardwel...016-scion-fr-s

http://www.picstoc.com/user/ross_new...2208_184339732

Tire to fender ratio would be nice to adjust as well, but I have no plans to lower it so I'm assuming that's out of the question.

In terms of performance/handling, I essentially don't want it to perform/handle any worse. Better is always welcome, but I also have no issue with it staying the same.

In terms of poke, I'd mostly prefer flush but if anything would prefer poke.

I'm not a huge fan of the RPF1's, but Enkei does make some nice looking wheels so I would not be opposed to getting some from them if that would work. I'm assuming 18" wheels would be ideal? Some examples I like:

http://enkei.com/shop/tuning/raijin/

http://enkei.com/shop/performance/edr9/

Is Konig a good company for light wheels? If so, I love the Oversteers:

https://konigwheels.com/wheels/main-...els/oversteer/

[JazzleSAURUS]

All fine options. Konigs have stepped up their quality in recent years, they are a lot nicer than they used to be. RPF1's are a 'starting point' example I usually use because they do so much well, and some people love them.

The Raijin and Gojin are two personal favorites from the tuning line, they are going to be a little heavier, but still plenty strong and less expensive. When you go to an 18" wheel, you're sacrificing some tire sidewall that may make it ride a bit more rough, but that's okay if you're expecting it.

I'm not into 18" wheels personally, but the offsets should still be accurate if you go with an 8" wide wheel which is generally my recommendation for these cars. Contrary to popular believe, it's very possible to put too much wheel/tire on these cars.

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

All fine options. Konigs have stepped up their quality in recent years, they are a lot nicer than they used to be. RPF1's are a 'starting point' example I usually use because they do so much well, and some people love them.

The Raijin and Gojin are two personal favorites from the tuning line, they are going to be a little heavier, but still plenty strong and less expensive. When you go to an 18" wheel, you're sacrificing some tire sidewall that may make it ride a bit more rough, but that's okay if you're expecting it.

I'm not into 18" wheels personally, but the offsets should still be accurate if you go with an 8" wide wheel which is generally my recommendation for these cars. Contrary to popular believe, it's very possible to put too much wheel/tire on these cars.

So getting 18" as opposed to 17" would only make bumps feel a little bumpier? It wouldn't affect the handling or performance?

As an example, the Oversteers come in 18x8 and 18x9 with either a 35 or 45 offset. The whole offset concept confuses me and so do spacers. How do you know what the offset affects and when you'll need spacers?

Thanks a ton for the help you've provided so far. Already getting questions answered I couldn't before.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Happy to help, I do my best!

Offset is the distance from the hub, (where the wheel contacts the brake rotor,) to the centerline of the wheel.

That means that a +35 8" and +35 9" wheel will fit differently, because they have the same offset (distance to the wheel centerline,) but it's an inch wider, you're gaining a half inch out towards the fender, and a half inch in towards the suspension.



The bigger wheel you get, the shorter you have to make the sidewall for the tire to match, or get close to the OEM OD of your wheel and tire package.

Example, 'same' tire size, (both 215/45, like the stock tires,)
but one is for a 17" wheel, one is for an 18" wheel. https://imgur.com/a/bmb7o

Conversely, here's a 'same outer diameter' (OD) tire size, (215/40-18) which is about as close as you're going to get: https://imgur.com/a/qqRng

The way a tire size works is thus: width/aspect ration of the width - wheel size.
So you lose 5% of the sidewall to keep the OD the same.

Hope that helps, let me know if you have any more questions, I'll do my best to help.

(Link to the tire calculator I use so you can play around, and get a visual ideal of how wheel/tire effects both aesthetic, and aspect ratio: https://tiresize.com/calculator/ )

[JazzleSAURUS]

Also to more directly answer your question, tire is GENERALLY lighter than wheel is. So a comparable OD and width package in a 16" package will be lighter than an 18" package, but the 18" package will be a bit more communicative, and likely give up a bit of grip. That is, imo, why these cars come with 17" wheels. It balances ultimate grip, (compliance in the sidewall, which helps retain grip during transitions, as well as dampen road shocks from the tire to the wheel,) with communication, (a shorter sidewall is naturally stiffer, which communicates better and offers that 'razor sharp' feeling.)

[Spuds]

Just keep in mind that lower profile tires are less protective of the wheel when running into pot holes. And larger wheels make your brakes look smaller if you are concerned about that.

Also, larger wheels are usually heavier, which affects performance (slightly).

[Aluma007]

a 17x9 or 18x9 +35 will stick out from the fender at normal oem camber, but will be flush with about 2.5-3 degrees of camber added...however, the tires will be really really close to the stock struts, if not rubbing. If you have coilovers, then there'd be no problem.

I went with 17x8 +45 Rota Titans...and the wheel is flush with the front fender with stock camber, the rear would need some spacers to be flush but it's not bad enough to make me actually put them on. The 225/45/17 tires would make it look even better since they'd fill up the wheel well more and look perfect on the 8inch wheel...the stock primacy tires look funny on an 8inch wheel btw...

[DandoX]

In addition to the good info above this is a good resource for brands and tire reviews:
https://www.tirerack.com/content/tir.../homepage.html
Possibly a good place to order if the price is right.

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

Also to more directly answer your question, tire is GENERALLY lighter than wheel is. So a comparable OD and width package in a 16" package will be lighter than an 18" package, but the 18" package will be a bit more communicative, and likely give up a bit of grip. That is, imo, why these cars come with 17" wheels. It balances ultimate grip, (compliance in the sidewall, which helps retain grip during transitions, as well as dampen road shocks from the tire to the wheel,) with communication, (a shorter sidewall is naturally stiffer, which communicates better and offers that 'razor sharp' feeling.)

I was playing around with that tire size calculator. Just out of curiosity, if I were to get 18" rims with the shortest sidewall possible, which would essentially make it a similar tire size to the stock tires I have now, would that have a noticeable difference in how the car handles/performs? What would be some of the differences that I could expect to feel? Here's the tires that the calculator provided:

Tire Size Equivalent Diameter
225/35R18 24.2x8.9R18 24.2"-1.6%
205/40R18 24.5x8.1R18 24.5"-0.4%
235/35R18 24.5x9.3R18 24.5"-0.4%
285/30R18 24.7x11.2R18 24.7"+0.4%
215/40R18 24.8x8.5R18 24.8"+0.8%
245/35R18 24.8x9.6R18 24.8"+0.8%
255/35R18 25.0x10R18 25.0"+1.6%
295/30R18 25.0x11.6R18 25.0"+1.6%
225/40R18 25.1x8.9R18 25.1"+2.0%
265/35R18 25.3x10.4R18 25.3"+2.8%

[JazzleSAURUS]

I think to answer your question, I'd have to reiterate this:
"So a comparable OD and width package in a 16" package will be lighter than an 18" package, but the 18" package will be a bit more communicative, and likely give up a bit of grip. That is, imo, why these cars come with 17" wheels. It balances ultimate grip, (compliance in the sidewall, which helps retain grip during transitions, as well as dampen road shocks from the tire to the wheel,) with communication, (a shorter sidewall is naturally stiffer, which communicates better and offers that 'razor sharp' feeling.)"

In going to an 18 it won't be bad, but you will notice some of the changes. If you want to minimize that, you could go with something like the 225/40. tire OD affects a lot, including gearing, (it's effectively your final, final drive...)

So you'll notice you will lose a bit of acceleration in going to a 225/40-18 based on gearing, and some based on the fact that you're likely adding weight to all 4 corners as well. Going with the 40 series sidewall will retain the majority of the sidewall that the stock 215/45 has, which will help with the negatives mentioned above in going to an 18" wheel.

One of the best ways to combat the gearing advantage you're losing is with a bit of extra power. Something like a JDL header and Delicious EcuTek tune will bring all that acceleration back, and then some, (with vengeance...) and should be perfectly reliable.

This is a bit part of why I've stuck with 17" wheels, aesthetically I think it works great, it keeps the weight down, and I get the benefit of taller sidewalls without the downsides of going too tall. If I wanted to go with an 18" wheel I'd get a taller package, and add power to combat the gearing disadvantage.

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

I think to answer your question, I'd have to reiterate this:
"So a comparable OD and width package in a 16" package will be lighter than an 18" package, but the 18" package will be a bit more communicative, and likely give up a bit of grip. That is, imo, why these cars come with 17" wheels. It balances ultimate grip, (compliance in the sidewall, which helps retain grip during transitions, as well as dampen road shocks from the tire to the wheel,) with communication, (a shorter sidewall is naturally stiffer, which communicates better and offers that 'razor sharp' feeling.)"

In going to an 18 it won't be bad, but you will notice some of the changes. If you want to minimize that, you could go with something like the 225/40. tire OD affects a lot, including gearing, (it's effectively your final, final drive...)

So you'll notice you will lose a bit of acceleration in going to a 225/40-18 based on gearing, and some based on the fact that you're likely adding weight to all 4 corners as well. Going with the 40 series sidewall will retain the majority of the sidewall that the stock 215/45 has, which will help with the negatives mentioned above in going to an 18" wheel.

One of the best ways to combat the gearing advantage you're losing is with a bit of extra power. Something like a JDL header and Delicious EcuTek tune will bring all that acceleration back, and then some, (with vengeance...) and should be perfectly reliable.

This is a bit part of why I've stuck with 17" wheels, aesthetically I think it works great, it keeps the weight down, and I get the benefit of taller sidewalls without the downsides of going too tall. If I wanted to go with an 18" wheel I'd get a taller package, and add power to combat the gearing disadvantage.

This is all super helpful, thank you. I think you have convinced me to stay with 17". I've been looking at the car a lot recently to see what I want and I think the fitment of the stock wheels on the 2017 is already pretty nice and i really don't want to sacrifice any performance that I already thoroughly enjoy. The difference between 17 and 18 isn't worth that imo.

So if I want tires as close to stock as possible or even keep the stock and use 17x8 Konig Oversteers. The wheel comes in 35 and 45 offset and various PCDs. What do I need to do to have tires and wheels that are flush to the fender without affecting performance/handling?

Sorry, I'm just super paranoid about this and it's taking me forever to figure out so I want to make sure I invest and it comes out the way I want it. You have been remarkably patient in helping me this much already, so I appreciate it.