EcuTek = no resale value?

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by Toma

Crappy gas is crappy gas and the same tune TODAY can be made to run as good as possible on crap gas versus 'good' gas.

"Can be made to" is the key bit of that sentence. My car would stall coming to hard stops when I used the reformulated gas, even after multiple resets. Tune fixed it, I'm just highlighting the fact that one size doesn't always fit all, even if our ECU's are more advanced then a TBI chevy. But that was more of an ancillary point of the above post anyways.

Dynos/vendors for BRZedit? I really want to be convinced. The cost difference is fantastic, but I'm not seeing any concrete information.

[Toma]

Your car stalled on pump gas on the stock tune?

Re updates for updates for life.

How does it work? So down the road, you add cams, free retune? Add a turbo, free retune? Built motor, more boost, bigger maf and injectors... free re tune?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

What vendors supply these BRZedit tunes with updates for life? If they're not advertising it as a service... That seems odd to me. For one I didn't know a vendor-provided option existed until now, and still don't have any fact on who to go to, result graphs, etc. You claim it's superiority to EcuTEK, but if so, why hide it, where are concrete numbers, etc? You insinuate EcuTEK's business model is shady, yet I find the lack of overt information more suspect and off-putting. I'd have considered BRZedit as a feasible option had I known vendors were providing for it. Just an observation here.

obviously i'm not going to throw anyone's name around. post a thread and you'll get pm's.

i don't claim anything for brzedit. i have absolutely nothing to do with brzedit. the guy that tuned my car chose to use it due to his previous experience with ecuedit.

and i don't call ecutek's business model 'shady'. i've never suggested their doing anything illegal or immoral, just that it's protectionist and shitty for the consumer, which is absolutely true. that's not 'shady'. shitty for sure, but not shady.

[Nightbringer]

The shady insinuation wasn't aimed at you jamesm, just speaking towards some of the generalized comments I've seen on here. I agree that it's not ideal for the consumer, but I supported the only product I saw that had vendor support.

As far as I'm aware the only update that wouldn't be covered is going forced induction. Cams would probably count as a radical enough change, but that's never been confirmed due to non-options in the market. MAF, injectors, etc are covered.

I want to make it clear, I completely get your point. Paying this vast sum of money for a tune I can't touch myself is scary. Potentially needing to pay more in the future when I undoubtedly go FI sucks. However, I didn't trust my own abilities to tune a $30,000 car, and have faith in John, Tony and the other providers to do right by me.

I know friends who would've opted for the BRZedit road had they known vendors would supply canned + updated tunes. You want to benefit the community, so provide us with the information. People aren't going to switch from what's presently the MAJOR tuning solution without dyno results, longevity figures, support, customer base, etc.

I saw your comment about the vendors not wanting to come forward, and I don't expect you to "out" them. I guess I'm missing where the backlash would come from. "EcuTEK mafia"? It's just another service, but it's never talked about, so most aren't aware.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by Toma

Re updates for updates for life.

How does it work? So down the road, you add cams, free retune? Add a turbo, free retune? Built motor, more boost, bigger maf and injectors... free re tune?

Generally, yes. Most of the bigger tuners, from what I understand, operate this way. Also if ECUTek releases new features, or updates some basic level coding stuff enough to have a new file version, the tuners shoot out those updates for free.

[SkAsphalt]

this thread is full of BS at this point. This is as bad as apple vs android argument. People who do not even own any of the options available are chiming in now. Better yet, everyone is apparently now an expert on licensing agreements. **** people.

[Those Meddling Kids]

Ecutek has been this way since the beginning. To sell ecutek you sell your ecu and cable.

[unijabnx2000]

Originally Posted by Rich@ViscontiTuning

This seems to be a really hot debate that comes up in various forms every month or so. I've read all of your responses and I think part of the problem is that so many get caught up in comparing "this product to that product" when the two really aren't as comparable as it might seem on the surface. EcuTek stands above the rest because it incorporates a ton of new features that no one else can offer. And it continues to innovate and improve upon them with regular updates. The end user ProECU software allows you to graph datalogs with a ton of new parameters in addition to the factory ones, and includes exclusive dealer tools like the ABS tool and steering wheel angle tool (for GTR), Subaru VIN Coder, Subaru Key Sync, and several others I'm sure I'm leaving out. And let's not forget about the RaceROM features and all of the groundbreaking capabilities that technology has made possible (advanced traction control and FlexFuel come to mind). EcuTek has a really nice software suite, and it's well worth the $250 license fee. And the license fee is payment for the privilege to use the software, not to own it. And that’s the important distinction that I think a lot of you don’t acknowledge or recognize. You’re supporting the software manufacturer to continue pouring tremendous resources into providing the industry with a better product.

But for me, this comes down to a single argument or topic - Intellectual Property. And it's another important difference because these aren’t tangible items you’re paying for.. like a TV. Everyone has the right to be fairly compensated for their work. That's the real 'American Way.' And I think a lot of you guys get caught up in the assumption that the tune or the license should be treated like any other performance part you install on your car. And that's just not the case. It isn’t as cut and dry as it is with an exhaust or an intake, where once you’ve engineered the part, its going to continue to work the same with all applications it’s made for without any further support from the manufacturer.

I think @Visconti made one of the best analogies I can think of the other day when he made the comparison to music you would buy off iTunes. And obviously the whole digital music and DRM debate still rages on today, but the bottom line is, the artists produce their music and you pay to listen to it. It isn’t “your song” because you’ve paid to listen to it.. it still belongs to the artist. It’s not a perfect comparison though because I think in this incredibly niche market we’re in, the tuner has even more right to protect his work and decide who can sell and distribute it than even an artist does with their music. And the reason I say that is because Visconti Tuning guarantees free updates for the life of the tune. And that’s a huge commitment because it’s not as simple as applying a “blanket update” to every customer’s tune. Each tune has to be individually updated. And the same is true for the initial tune. It has to be individually adapted to each specific car, because as I’m sure many of you know, there are widely varying ECU models even on the same year and model car, all of which have to be supported and made to work with the base calibration.

It really comes down to what you’re paying for when you buy these products. You’re paying for their use and their benefits; not their “physical ownership.” I think the concert analogy used above also has some merit because if you decide that you want to leave the concert early, you’re not entitled to a refund. It was your decision to leave. The artist still put on the show and provided what you paid for. The same is true when you decide to sell your tune. We’ve guaranteed the tune for the life of your car. If you leave early and decide to go in a different direction, that doesn’t change the fact that we delivered on what you paid for and you enjoyed the full benefit of the product. And just like you shouldn’t be able to leave midway through the concert and sell your ticket to someone waiting outside, each new customer wanting their car tuned should have to pay the same “admission fee.”

The only exception to this in my opinion is if you sell your car. Then it should be transferrable and you should be allowed to charge a premium for the fact that the car has advanced capabilities over the average stock car. In that case, just like with a warranty (another intangible item), it’s the property of the car and it should go along with it. This is definitely an interesting debate and I think it has much wider implications than just what we’re talking about here. But as we progress ever further into the digital revolution, it becomes more and more important for people to be able to protect their ideas and their digital work. And I think most reasonable people looking at the situation without a vested interest (i.e. a tune they want to sell) would agree with these arguments.

Am I the only one that couldnt finish reading this? I lost it at the third sentence.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Those Meddling Kids

Ecutek has been this way since the beginning. To sell ecutek you sell your ecu and cable.

Don't forget the usb dongle, I think you have to sell your laptop too unless you want to go thru the hassel/ass-kissing to get a licensed copy of ecutek on your laptop that can receive updates to bugs. Oh a win8 laptop with ecutek has been reported to not work.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by regal

Don't forget the usb dongle, I think you have to sell your laptop too unless you want to go thru the hassel/ass-kissing to get a licensed copy of ecutek on your laptop that can receive updates to bugs. Oh a win8 laptop with ecutek has been reported to not work.

Nope the license is in the dongle only. You can download and install the Ecutek software on any PC or laptop but need the dongle inserted for it to launch.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Apoc

Nope the license is in the dongle only. You can download and install the Ecutek software on any PC or laptop but need the dongle inserted for it to launch.

That's good, what about windows 8 working or not?

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by regal

That's good, what about windows 8 working or not?

Ecutek has a windows 8 compatible installer so I assume it works.

[cnk]

Originally Posted by regal

That's good, what about windows 8 working or not?

Works fine for me. Been using it with Windows 8 since it came out.

[Toma]

I'm not a fan of the intellectual property argument. Keep in mind, when I say the following, it's as a tuner for honestly longer than I know. 15+ years. Owned one dyno or another for 13....

Tuning is like buying a puzzle and putting it together. There is no magic. But a method and logical procedure. You know what the final picture looks like because you have a dyno, data logging, acceleration feedback etc. Your job is to take the pieces available (cam angles, timing, af) and put them together till it looks like your picture or goal. Seems silly to claim intellectual property on putting a puzzle together.

Comes across as vain to me.

There is a slight difference in that the tuners beliefs and perceptions, and tools he is using can alter what he thinks the picture should look like.