Toyota and Subaru Officially Confirm Second Gen 86! (September 27, 2019)

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Quentin

It distributes the force over the body versus cutting your knees out from under you and giving an effect of your head and upper body whipping into the hood. Pop up headlights just created a really small area to apply that force.

Except that's not always the case. 2 weeks ago leaving a football game I saw a pedestrian get hit by a Ford Explorer. Explorer was just idling along, less than 5 mph. Because of the vehicle height the person hit the front and then was propelled down onto the ground. I was shocked how bad it was given the speed. Had it been a low slung sports car he would have landed on the hood and that would have been the end of it

The only way the 86/BRZ get away with such a low hood is because of the flat engine. This lets them build a crumple zone between where the body impacts the hood and any actual hard part of the engine under the hood. If the 86/BRZ has an in-line engine, the hood would be 6” taller.

BRZ's hood height is dictated more by the height of the strut towers than the engine height.

[James H]

Don't understand why flip up lights are banned because of pedestrian safety but you are allowed to install bush bars on SUVs? I imagine getting hit by bush bars is like getting whipped by nunchuks x 100!
which one would you rather make contact with?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Quentin

The only way the 86/BRZ get away with such a low hood is because of the flat engine. This lets them build a crumple zone between where the body impacts the hood and any actual hard part of the engine under the hood. If the 86/BRZ has an in-line engine, the hood would be 6” taller.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by James H

To get around the new regulation, manufacturers should start buying up old cars from the 90s and 80s and "restore" them under an official restoration program. They have the same VINs so can get away with it and the cars can be restored to new condition. I think Porsche, Nismo and Jag have done this in limited numbers. They got to do this before all these cars get scrapped.

So they would have a handful of 30 year old tech, expensively restored cars that they could only sell for big dollars? Not a great business plan when you think it through. There is a reason that the others only did it on a very limited basis with very special cars.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by James H

Don't understand why flip up lights are banned because of pedestrian safety but you are allowed to install bush bars on SUVs? I imagine getting hit by bush bars is like getting whipped by nunchuks x 100!
which one would you rather make contact with?

Canada is actually thinking of banning bush guards. Unfortunately comparing requirements rarely ends up fair across the board. There are tens of thousands of regular passenger cars out there for every vehicle with a bush bar.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by ZDan

All of Toyota’s modern engines have the cams in a cam carrier that sits on top of the head and a roller rocker valve train (which the Mazda may use; I’m not familiar with the sky active construction.) Just comparing the ZZ engine (shim buckets, cam in head) to the ZR engine (roller rocker, cam carrier), the crank center line to the top of the engine is 6” taller on the newer engine. The Miata is more of a true midship engine versus the BRZ/86 that has the engine dropped between the wheels.





The point above about the strut towers also being a limiting factor is on point, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by why?

They don't design them because they can't make them useful. I am sure they'd rather have their own engines in their vehicles rather than buy them from Toyota.

Your definition of "useful" must be way different than mine and most other peoples. I mean by most accounts the engine in the ZR1 Corvette sure was useful. Hmm??? Just how well do you know Lotus and it's history?
And no, Lotus doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, (engine) if you catch my drift. Besides it goes against Collin's ethos for Lotus. Spend money, time engineering where you need to. Utilize the best that others have to offer everywhere else. Especially if it's their money! Hence the original cars used Cooper, Ford, Austin, Renault etc. massaged by the likes of Climax, Cosworth and Gordini.

[Dake]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

NO! It's about the commercial transport industry as a whole, world wide! That's trucks, trains, airplanes and ships that have gone on for many decades with little to no emission standards. Not to mention, lawn mowers, weed whackers, leaf blowers and a whole host of other internal combustion powered items. The family car makes up but a fraction of the total pollution that's been destroying our planet.

To put it politely, this is incorrect. Good news though - here's a brand new article on the subject!

In a nutshell:

• Emissions have been on the rise since the 90's despite increasingly efficient passenger vehicles.
• Passenger vehicles account for about 60% of emissions (freight only about 23%)

So while yes obviously, any one rig has higher emissions than any one car - there are waaaaay more cars on the road, and it's increasing. So stagnating, or worse still, reducing emissions requirements on passenger vehicles will only make things worse.

As for this:

That and the fact that they stopped working after about a year anyplace that had cold weather.

If this was in response to flip-up headlights in general maybe, but not always. My first G4 Celica's headlights worked to 200k miles and it spent the bulk of its life in places with moderate to heavy winters (including northern Maine), and my current 89 Celica has no issues at thirty years. Maybe GM flip-up headlights went bad, but we've had good experiences with all Toyota flip-ups.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Dake

In a nutshell:

• Emissions have been on the rise since the 90's despite increasingly efficient passenger vehicles.
• Passenger vehicles account for about 60% of emissions (freight only about 23%)

.

What they didn't say was this:

Per their article there are 250M cars on the road.
Per this article there are 15.5M freight trucks on the road.

So, 5.6% of the vehicles on the road do 23% of the emissions pollution.

To me, that means its time to go after that target. Also, I'm guessing (but didn't try to look it up) the freight portion is the part that is increasing as the sales of personal vehicles is declining but the number of freight vehicles is increasing.

Two sides to every story and you can always spin it either way.

[new2subaru]

We need to reinvent the railway systems and get all the trucks off the road.


https://www.railwayage.com/freight/c...inues-decline/

[Summerwolf]

Flip up headlights were really cool.... just saying. It's hard to beat the lines of a car with those down.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

BRZ's hood height is dictated more by the height of the strut towers than the engine height.

Which is why they need to copy the S2000 front suspension design.



It's ridiculous how little fender width there is.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Which is why they need to copy the S2000 front suspension design.



It's ridiculous how little fender width there is.

copy...? why? you need a long ass hood to achieve that..I don't want to lose any of the twin's packaging..perfect hood and body length for me..

[Dake]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

What they didn't say was this:

Per their article there are 250M cars on the road.
Per this article there are 15.5M freight trucks on the road.

So, 5.6% of the vehicles on the road do 23% of the emissions pollution.

To me, that means its time to go after that target. Also, I'm guessing (but didn't try to look it up) the freight portion is the part that is increasing as the sales of personal vehicles is declining but the number of freight vehicles is increasing.

Two sides to every story and you can always spin it either way.

Good point and yes, what it really means is a) continuing to improve passenger vehicle emissions AND 2) dramatically improving freight emissions.

As New2 mentions, we as a nation shouldn't have let our rail system stagnate.