My Test Drive Impressions

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

The Miata was fine for thirteen years of winter, cant see where the porshe would be ant worse than the Miata or the FRS for that matter.

Except that you said you weren't sure how the Boxster would handle winter. Now I'm a little confused :P

Originally Posted by RaceR

I was very happy in my MR2 roadster in the winter! (with hardtop)
Would probably not be any less happy in another MR or even RR.
Steering feel in that car was great too. Felt every little bump in the road through the steering wheel.
Could go from one side of the country and over the mountains to the other without issues and problems with step hills thanks to it having more weight over the rear wheels. But yeah, it was a bit more nervous than a FR. And a bit short wheelbase did improve on that. .
If not doing any spirited driving MR would probably be better than FR when going through a town in the winter based on my experience.

Haha ok probably part of this is me having become a weakling with regard to winter after too many years in the mild-climate SF Bay Area
But I was thinking more along the lines of (a) does the hard top really work or does it just leak in a lot of cold and snow/slush/rain, and (b) can you get good winter tires for these cars and are they still enjoyable to drive with the winter tires on? I'll admit I bought the M Roadster in part to help me cope with all the BS in California, so I've always thought of it as a "fair weather car" :P

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by einzlr

Haha ok probably part of this is me having become a weakling with regard to winter after too many years in the mild-climate SF Bay Area
But I was thinking more along the lines of (a) does the hard top really work or does it just leak in a lot of cold and snow/slush/rain, and (b) can you get good winter tires for these cars and are they still enjoyable to drive with the winter tires on? I'll admit I bought the M Roadster in part to help me cope with all the BS in California, so I've always thought of it as a "fair weather car" :P

Hehe.. I have a special unatural love for winter and low grip driving in RWDs. So im a bit special in that way.

Hardtop on my MR2 worked great. Only one very rough rainstorm one autumn made some water come inn between the passanger window and the hartop seal. A normal car could even have had issues in that storm. No problem with the snow. And I highly doubt a Porsche is worse than that.
My MR2 did not lift its windows up a bit extra when entering the car. That feature would easily seal better if made well.

You can get winter tires to most exotics. Tires comes in all shapes and sizes so no problem.
Some proof, and I bet some of the people driving the cars in this video had the time of their life!
(arrengement made by a dealer who sells exotics and other expensive cars)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erYbrcBYj8Q"]Ferdinand Ice Festival 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by einzlr

Except that you said you weren't sure how the Boxster would handle winter. Now I'm a little confused :P



Haha ok probably part of this is me having become a weakling with regard to winter after too many years in the mild-climate SF Bay Area
But I was thinking more along the lines of (a) does the hard top really work or does it just leak in a lot of cold and snow/slush/rain, and (b) can you get good winter tires for these cars and are they still enjoyable to drive with the winter tires on? I'll admit I bought the M Roadster in part to help me cope with all the BS in California, so I've always thought of it as a "fair weather car" :P

I guess what I should have said was "Not sure how $60,000 worth of bodywork is going to stand up to the salt and crap that gets tossed at it" and "how many exhaust are going to rot off the car while I own it, plus will the top leak?"

From an actual moving in a straight line in snowy conditions, with snow tires, it should be fine. I just cant afford to toss away a Porsche every ten years, Miatae and FRS are in the budget for 10 year amortization to the point where it goes to the recyclers.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

I guess what I should have said was "Not sure how $60,000 worth of bodywork is going to stand up to the salt and crap that gets tossed at it" and "how many exhaust are going to rot off the car while I own it, plus will the top leak?"

From an actual moving in a straight line in snowy conditions, with snow tires, it should be fine. I just cant afford to toss away a Porsche every ten years, Miatae and FRS are in the budget for 10 year amortization to the point where it goes to the recyclers.

Hehe thanks for clarifying; now it makes sense

@RaceR thx for the video, yes it looks like fun. They do something like that in the mountains in Bern, Switzerland as well. I was more wondering about day-to-day driving when you just have to get somewhere, but I guess my answer is that you northerners are tough

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by einzlr

@RaceR thx for the video, yes it looks like fun. They do something like that in the mountains in Bern, Switzerland as well. I was more wondering about day-to-day driving when you just have to get somewhere, but I guess my answer is that you northerners are tough

Northerns? What you talking about?..I dont see any Northerns.. We are VIKINGS. we eat trolls for breakfast dinner and supper.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by RaceR

Northerns? What you talking about?..I dont see any Northerns.. We are VIKINGS. we eat trolls for breakfast dinner and supper.

Ooooohhh my bad
I'll leave this here 'specially for you :happy0180:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm6w4J4wXf4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm6w4J4wXf4[/ame]

[nedmundo]

Because steering feedback has been a theme here, and many of us are unhappy with dead-feeling EPS, those interested should check out the December 2012 issue of Car and Driver. They explain why EPS has poor on-center feel and minimal feedback, and compare two new BMW 5 Series cars with xDrive, a 528i with EPS and a 535i with hydraulic steering assist (HPS). It's interesting, and I was hoping one of the car mags would explore this issue.

Also, FWIW, this week I tried a new 328i with M-Sport and the Variable Sport Steering, and it was just as mute/numb as my memory of the earlier 328i I tested. Like the earlier one, this steering was both lighter and less tactile than the steering in my TSX, which is astounding to me. I just cannot believe BMW's test drivers would be happy with this. At least give the Sport and M Sport lines more heavily weighted steering in sport mode. Sheesh. This one did have xDrive though, and perhaps a RWD model with VSS would feel better.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by nedmundo

Because steering feedback has been a theme here, and many of us are unhappy with dead-feeling EPS, those interested should check out the December 2012 issue of Car and Driver. They explain why EPS has poor on-center feel and minimal feedback, and compare two new BMW 5 Series cars with xDrive, a 528i with EPS and a 535i with hydraulic steering assist (HPS). It's interesting, and I was hoping one of the car mags would explore this issue.

Also, FWIW, this week I tried a new 328i with M-Sport and the Variable Sport Steering, and it was just as mute/numb as my memory of the earlier 328i I tested. Like the earlier one, this steering was both lighter and less tactile than the steering in my TSX, which is astounding to me. I just cannot believe BMW's test drivers would be happy with this. At least give the Sport and M Sport lines more heavily weighted steering in sport mode. Sheesh. This one did have xDrive though, and perhaps a RWD model with VSS would feel better.

BMW seems to be in sort of an experimental or transition phase where they're trying to deal with changing economic and environmental concerns, technology trends etc. People are also hating the run-flats they put on the 3-series. Word is they did that for mpg reasons, but it seems to me they need to go back to the drawing board.

[nedmundo]

Originally Posted by einzlr

BMW seems to be in sort of an experimental or transition phase where they're trying to deal with changing economic and environmental concerns, technology trends etc. People are also hating the run-flats they put on the 3-series. Word is they did that for mpg reasons, but it seems to me they need to go back to the drawing board.

I agree, but I also think BMW has realized that true enthusiasts are a small, albeit passionate, fraction of their customers. As a result, their latest models emphasize luxury, refinement, and comfort over a visceral, engaging driving experience. I expect the new 3 Series will handily outsell the previous generation, because its blend of luxury, sport, and refinement will appeal to a wider range of customers. Heck, with decent steering feel and possibly tighter suspension, I'd be thrilled with one because of how easily it could transition between family hauler and back road dance partner. As it stands, I'd rather keep my TSX...and add an FR-S or BRZ!

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by nedmundo

I agree, but I also think BMW has realized that true enthusiasts are a small, albeit passionate, fraction of their customers. As a result, their latest models emphasize luxury, refinement, and comfort over a visceral, engaging driving experience. I expect the new 3 Series will handily outsell the previous generation, because its blend of luxury, sport, and refinement will appeal to a wider range of customers. Heck, with decent steering feel and possibly tighter suspension, I'd be thrilled with one because of how easily it could transition between family hauler and back road dance partner. As it stands, I'd rather keep my TSX...and add an FR-S or BRZ!

As I'm sure you know, that perfect-compromise, all-around quality combined with comparative affordability is what made BMWs such a hit back in the '70s/'80s, but of late they've kind of lost sight of their roots. And you're dead-on right about BMW and the brand's enthusiasts. Not just them, and not just cars, but in general, enthusiasts of anything tend to be considered a nuisance rather than an asset because, as you said, what they lack in volume/quantity they make up in strong opinions and finickiness.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by einzlr

BMW seems to be in sort of an experimental or transition phase where they're trying to deal with changing economic and environmental concerns, technology trends etc. People are also hating the run-flats they put on the 3-series. Word is they did that for mpg reasons, but it seems to me they need to go back to the drawing board.

Yeah, so many are complaining about the runflats. Stupid to not offer an alternative. On their latest and upcoming performance models Michelin Pilot Super Sport seems to be an option/default choose tough.

BMW are adapting. We see it in basically all manufacturers line-up.
What BMW are doing is ensuring more sales by appealing to more customers by making a wider line-up. They will and are watering down their trademark, but they also aim to be more of a drivers car in general compared to its rivals. Just not in a too hardcore way. Because they have to try to keep Audi from passing them in sales. Most owners of 1-series don't even know its RWD, so that says a lot.
BMW will not just come with one FWD cars in the future, but most likely several, and also convert some (atleast X1).
RWD is more expensive to manufacture, takes more place and customers don't appreciate it enough to justify the price tag.

As for the "I" series, electric cars. Well that will just be another side thing that will become larger and larger in the future. Technology from the "I"series will then over time find its way into the regular series.. It will become a constant transition between several types of models and technologies. Stuff will evolve much quicker than we have seen the last three decades.
Hybrid series/versions of the normal cars are already a "normal" thing for BMW. And natural for a manufacturer like BMW to make in these times.

VAG group have lots of cars, and thereby a production advantage. I think BMW are just working on adding more to their lineup so that they can profit from a larger buyer group. More cars, more series.
They are also making production more efficient. Future 3-cylinder engines is basically a half 6 cylinder. Several parts should be interchangeable.
Same with engine mounting, cross fitting diesel and petrol engines. All to make the assembly and production easier and more cost efficient.

True oldschool enthusiasts don't seem to represent a large enough buyer group. Making X6M seems to be more suitable than to make lightweight driver cars. Because they sell. We see that on Porsche as well. Who would have tough Porsche would make large fat luxury SUVs and cars?
But still they have managed to hold on to their enthusiasts. Porsche is still Porsche. Hopefully BMW will still be BMW (the ultimate driving machine) in the future.
When pressing DSC off in the latest BMW (non-M models) you automatically get into comfort mode instead of sport, which is just plain stupid. And I hope that is not the direction things are going. Some stuff are clearly not made for the more hardcore enthusiasts. Hopefully someone find a way to code it, if its not figured out by someone already.

I do think the I4 may be promising. We will probably see some of it later this month.
And the 2-series should be promising if they don't mess up the design.

In regard to engines, they are just adapting for more efficient engines with better fuel efficiency. Something every manufacturer must do to survive.
Its very close between the German manufacturers. BMW cant risk falling behind, so fuel efficiency is extremely important.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by RaceR

Hopefully BMW will still be BMW (the ultimate driving machine) in the future.

I'm with you on all points and I would love to see BMW find a way to still be BMW, but for the moment they've lost me as an enthusiast except for E46 and earlier. TBH, for years I had thought that the '05 Accent would be the last new car I ever bought because I just couldn't warm up to the direction cars were going, so I was just elated when the 86/FR-S/BRZ came along, and, as you say, things are happening as well with electric cars. Had I had the means, I would have bought a Tesla Roadster, flaws and all. I love the idea of mountains of instant torque and of swooshing near-silently through the twisties

[SOneThreeCoupe]

From Vikings to BMWs...

I'm going to try to test drive a car with stock wheels/tires this weekend.

Every other modern car bores me. I priced out a Whiteline bushing rebuild in the front, only ~$510 before shipping.