08-23-2015, 07:43 PM | #43 | |
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since the ambient temps during March should be 65-70 degrees, it's a bit more understandable NA with proper cooling seems to be steady at ~230 after your 5th lap, I also try to avoid going to the track days when it's really hot but here in PNW track season is fairly short due to weather conditions :/
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08-24-2015, 11:40 AM | #44 | |
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A stock FA20 (200hp) and a FI-FA20(400hp) elicit very different cylinder pressures and forces upon the oil, however their con-rod and crank journals stayed the same. So one needs to take into account the right oil viscosity needed to maintain that hydrodynamic wedge in the bearings that's needed to support the extra power of Forced Induction or the extra thinning (viscosity loss) from extra heat or both. UOAs. Mobil 1 US blends seems to be pretty standard affair while their 0w40 Euro-spec blend is much better because it's meeting a higher standard (and the UOAs are solid). From my own nerding-out on VOA/UOAs, the Mobil 1 0w40 is the only OTS Mobil product I'd consider (that's not racing specific) and if you're dead set on 5w-30 then you are better off with the 300v.
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08-24-2015, 02:47 PM | #45 | |||
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and the "extra heat", like I mentioned earlier 5w-30 seems to be running better on our engines with my experience(generates less heat compared to 0w-40 ..if the 5w-30 provides adequate pressure at the given temp range and there's not big of a difference between 10w-30 and 10w-40 (a couple psi differences) like in the Dezoris' chart I would still stick to the recommended viscosity range for the FA20 engines (definitely lower than 13 cst at 100C degrees) I think I've found the same article and the analogy you were reffering to at the website called "marinediesels.info" http://www.marinediesels.info/2_stro...ubrication.htm they also added : Quote:
to sum up, I will take my chance to run the engine with this oil since frequent changes (every other track day) seems to be more logical to me at this point Quote:
if you remember Dezoris also had good UOAs result with 0w-20 Redline oil but I still wouldn't consider running 0w-20 looking at those results, FYI, I haven't seen anyone seen that had bad UOAs with Mobil 1 5w-30 and so the main reason I am sending the 5w-30 Mobil 1 is because I want to see if there's anything abnormal wear &tear on the engine (metal shavings and whatnot) since that could be a good indicator for a failure ...not because I want to see if the Mobil 1 5w-30 is holding up well ..because I am almost sure that it does same (and sometimes even better) protection than those Motul, Redline and Amsoil you can simply compare their specs sheets to see that ..there's no voodoo magic there, if they both meets the manufacturer's recommended specs(Mobil 1 0w-40 european formula doesn't meet those standards AFAIK) and provide the protection that they dictate on the technical spec sheets , it's fine by me.. to me UOAs only tell if you're about to lose your engine or the oil is the crappiest oil you can find in the market
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08-24-2015, 03:43 PM | #46 | |
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also the reason why we see greater oil pressure is because the thicker oil cannot flow through all the areas in the engine as good as the thinner oil due to tighter tolerances, (lesser the general volume higher the total oil pressure), so oil pressure alone cannot be used as an indicator for better lubrication ...especially if the thinner (5w-30) already meets the ideal 10 psi per RPM at ~220F figures..
see below that I quoted from my friend's post from the Camaro forums: Quote:
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08-24-2015, 09:34 PM | #47 |
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First off, I didn't say Mobil 1 was shit. I just said that US spec Mobil1 OTS oils are "standard affair".
Secondly, you talk about about thinner oil running cool.. well super duper.. but if you're so horny for thin oil and think the margin of error is so massive why not just run a straight 5wt? Seriously.. It'd be very thin and hey, the NASCAR guys race on straight 5wt and qualify on 0wt. After all if we only need .001" film thickness and your 30wt gives you .01 then you can go way thinner! And you quoted the Camaro forums, which is doing nothing more than regurgitating the front page of BITOG which is just regurgitating 50 year old information that was regurgitated back then... When I checked the actual data for the FA20 (it's in the workshop manual btw) it shows the operating temp at 176F and NOT @ 212 like the BITOG mentions. Hmmm, maybe, just maybe the "rule of thumb" from a half a century a go doesn't apply?! Could it be!? Yes, it could be and frankly you're proving it to be. What I'm getting at is that you're not wrong, BUT you are going through great lengths to defend a positions that you yourself don't actually hold in real life. Which is maintaining an oil pressure you claim to achieve (10/1000). You're doing all the right things by using a very good oil, getting UOAs and doing the research but don't tell me that your hitting 10/1000 on 5w-30 when you're north of 240F, because you are not and this I'd bet a large sum of money on because there's plenty of data on this very board that shows that's never been done! If it has please email Element Tuning I'm sure he'd pay to inspect your magical oil pump! What position you should be defending is that lower oil pressure than 10/1000 is OK, as that would be the position all your data and evidence seems to support. So yeah, there's that, please keep up the good work and thanks for the data.
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08-25-2015, 12:33 AM | #48 |
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I never said it would do that north of 240F Colin, I know it cannot do 10 psi/rpm but it's also not required to be that high.. if I remember correctly it would be ideal if it makes ~10 psi/rpm at 210-220 F (not sure about the exact figure) so it is also acceptable 7-8 psi when temps rise but 4-5 psi.rpm is on the low side I get it ..but in above chart it seems to be reaching those targets with no problem ..
also, the reason why you don't want to run straight 50wt oil is the reason why I don't/won't run 5wt straight, because it's far from being ideal, I pick 5w-30 since I believe it's the ideal range all things considered and you take it one notch above 0w-40, that's all .. thing to remember is each has its advantages/disadvantages (maybe slightly more than the other).. IMO, if there's a potential risk due to design of the engine this cannot be band-aided with slightly thicker oil anyways, time will tell
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08-25-2015, 01:24 AM | #49 |
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Hmm, I thought you were seeing as high as 280F. So that's that and we agree.
Now, where are you on considering ditching this whole trackday thing and investing a nomex suit?
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08-25-2015, 01:35 AM | #50 | |
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I would love to be able to get into the "Time Attack" events like the ones I've seen last year on the day we were both at NASA PR event, that seems to be more appealing to me ... my friends that I go to track with, also keep telling me about the Chump Car, Lemons Race ..etc maybe I should try some day but not anytime soon since I need to fix all those little bugs with my car first
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08-25-2015, 01:54 AM | #51 |
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This is making me wonder if and how much the high temp related knock has to do with loss of oil pressure. Hmmm...
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08-30-2015, 01:11 PM | #52 |
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Updated the first post with a graph showing the effects of an oil cooler.
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11-24-2015, 07:33 PM | #53 |
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it may have been said but I did not see it
oil nomenclature is fairly strait forward 5W30 for example the first number 5 followed by the W is the base weight of the oil , the second number is the effective weight of the oil when the viscosity enhancers are in play. check the amsoil sight that is why the base weight used in the cold is less to help starting and when the oil gets hot it will act like a heavier oil. Last edited by ls1ac; 11-24-2015 at 07:36 PM. Reason: add amsoil |
11-24-2015, 07:48 PM | #54 |
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0W20 vs. 5W30 Test Data
Because most oil you can buy off shelf in US sucks?
I mean we don't have small companies that's anal enough to make oil different suitable for different engine characteristics. http://www.respo.net/egn/respo86.html Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
11-24-2015, 08:34 PM | #55 |
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... and here I am tracking with ENEOS Sustina 0W-20...
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11-25-2015, 02:46 AM | #56 |
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... and I still am tracking with 0W-20 and don't plan on changing soon.
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