follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List
jpit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-18-2012, 09:35 PM   #701
Do Boy
Turbo FR-S
 
Do Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Pearland,TX
Posts: 680
Thanks: 227
Thanked 269 Times in 150 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Send a message via ICQ to Do Boy Send a message via AIM to Do Boy Send a message via MSN to Do Boy Send a message via Yahoo to Do Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum View Post
What makes you say that?
Based on the firing order and the way the stock runners are paired. 1 3 2 4. 1 is paired right with two with a complete 180 for runner one. All that's going to do is push all the air into runner two and not flow out.
Do Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:30 AM   #702
Calum
That Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2013 asphalt FRS MT
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 4,865
Thanks: 5,058
Thanked 2,867 Times in 1,499 Posts
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Boy View Post
Based on the firing order and the way the stock runners are paired. 1 3 2 4. 1 is paired right with two with a complete 180 for runner one. All that's going to do is push all the air into runner two and not flow out.
But that pairing gives even pulse widths. If 1 and 3 were paired the collector would see pulse, pulse, blank, blank. This way it's pulse, blank, pulse, blank, which gives even opportunity for scavenging. Doesn't it?
Calum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 07:22 AM   #703
Do Boy
Turbo FR-S
 
Do Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Pearland,TX
Posts: 680
Thanks: 227
Thanked 269 Times in 150 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Send a message via ICQ to Do Boy Send a message via AIM to Do Boy Send a message via MSN to Do Boy Send a message via Yahoo to Do Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum View Post
But that pairing gives even pulse widths. If 1 and 3 were paired the collector would see pulse, pulse, blank, blank. This way it's pulse, blank, pulse, blank, which gives even opportunity for scavenging. Doesn't it?
No. The way my header is paired is how it's going to scavenge. If the header was off I would take a video and show you how mine worked and how we test it. But it can't scavenge number 3 if it's not connected to number 3 at all. When 1 fires it should already be scavenging it from the next cylinder about to fire.can't do that if the stock header is a tri y and paired to the wrong cylinder. The way this 4:1 collector is paired is better than the factory with the firing order. By the look of this collector when 1 fires it will scavenge air from 3. and then 2 from 4. The shop that made my header went with a 360 4:1. Where 1 will scavenge from 3 then 3 from 2 then 2 from 4 then 4 from 1. Either way both desgines will be better than factory.The only reason I could see Toyota/Subaru making the header the way it is, is because of sound. They way it's paired definitely won't have that subie rumble.

Update:
I had the morning off today so I went into the shop where my stock header is and did a little scavenge test. Looks like I was right stock header is garbage. Doesn't scavenge from any cylinder. I'll take my header off sometime this week and do the same test. But for now I used a full race divided housing to compare.
[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q-2IHf9Eo1Q"]Stock FR-S BRZ and GT86 header. - YouTube[/ame]

Last edited by Do Boy; 11-19-2012 at 10:31 AM. Reason: update
Do Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 09:48 AM   #704
Dimman
Kuruma Otaku
 
Dimman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Drives: Mk3 Supra with Semi-built 7MGTE
Location: Greater Vancouver (New West)
Posts: 6,854
Thanks: 2,398
Thanked 2,265 Times in 1,234 Posts
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum View Post
But that pairing gives even pulse widths. If 1 and 3 were paired the collector would see pulse, pulse, blank, blank. This way it's pulse, blank, pulse, blank, which gives even opportunity for scavenging. Doesn't it?
Yes.
__________________


Because titanium.
Dimman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #705
Grip Ronin
The Mechanic
 
Grip Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: Civic Turbo,FR-S
Location: NJ
Posts: 928
Thanks: 130
Thanked 171 Times in 119 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
id like a 4-1 catted just to keep off the MIL and make up the tq
__________________
IG-Joey_Soul
Progress Thread Ported billet 20G
Grip Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 10:24 AM   #706
Gardus@Supersprint
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: Clio TCE
Location: Mantova - Italy
Posts: 494
Thanks: 17
Thanked 154 Times in 70 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
@Do Boy: that's not a very significant test, you're making a longer pressure wave in static conditions, there's no flow or waves coming from the other cylinders.
Gardus@Supersprint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gardus@Supersprint For This Useful Post:
ill86 (11-20-2012)
Old 11-19-2012, 10:39 AM   #707
Do Boy
Turbo FR-S
 
Do Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Pearland,TX
Posts: 680
Thanks: 227
Thanked 269 Times in 150 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Send a message via ICQ to Do Boy Send a message via AIM to Do Boy Send a message via MSN to Do Boy Send a message via Yahoo to Do Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardus@Supersprint View Post
@Do Boy: that's not a very significant test, you're making a longer pressure wave in static conditions, there's no flow or waves coming from the other cylinders.
I realize it's prolly not the best way to test. But it gives you the best idea. Shooting air into one of the cylinders will show how it pulls out from the next. All four cyliders wont fire at once. So 1 when fires it's already pulling from 3 so when 3 fires its already being pulled out

I'm not claiming to be an expert. I am just re hashing everything I have learned over the years going from shop to shop. But all the fabrications shops here in Houston seem to all have the same method to testing their collectors.

I could be wrong in all this. But all I am aware of and care is that the header I purchased made power. That's all that really matters to me.

Last edited by Do Boy; 11-19-2012 at 12:39 PM.
Do Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Do Boy For This Useful Post:
Calum (11-19-2012)
Old 11-19-2012, 10:53 AM   #708
Gardus@Supersprint
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: Clio TCE
Location: Mantova - Italy
Posts: 494
Thanks: 17
Thanked 154 Times in 70 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
Gardus@Supersprint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 10:54 AM   #709
Neziah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 HotLava FRS, 2005 Legacy
Location: Driver's Seat
Posts: 394
Thanks: 97
Thanked 126 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum View Post
Somethings telling me they're having trouble finding significant gains over the stock piece. And that isn't meant to say the Nameless crew are doing a bad job, quite the opposite, I think the stock header is very well made.
See post #3 in this thread, it contains the dyno sheets. Finding power is not the problem. They have just been busy on other projects.
__________________
----------
HotLava FRS MT
Neziah is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Neziah For This Useful Post:
Calum (11-19-2012)
Old 11-19-2012, 10:55 AM   #710
Do Boy
Turbo FR-S
 
Do Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Pearland,TX
Posts: 680
Thanks: 227
Thanked 269 Times in 150 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Send a message via ICQ to Do Boy Send a message via AIM to Do Boy Send a message via MSN to Do Boy Send a message via Yahoo to Do Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardus@Supersprint View Post
Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
So be it than. Guess I'm wrong. Good day everyone and happy holidays.
Do Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:16 PM   #711
Calum
That Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2013 asphalt FRS MT
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 4,865
Thanks: 5,058
Thanked 2,867 Times in 1,499 Posts
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Boy View Post
No. The way my header is paired is how it's going to scavenge. If the header was off I would take a video and show you how mine worked and how we test it. But it can't scavenge number 3 if it's not connected to number 3 at all. When 1 fires it should already be scavenging it from the next cylinder about to fire.can't do that if the stock header is a tri y and paired to the wrong cylinder. The way this 4:1 collector is paired is better than the factory with the firing order. By the look of this collector when 1 fires it will scavenge air from 3. and then 2 from 4. The shop that made my header went with a 360 4:1. Where 1 will scavenge from 3 then 3 from 2 then 2 from 4 then 4 from 1. Either way both desgines will be better than factory.The only reason I could see Toyota/Subaru making the header the way it is, is because of sound. They way it's paired definitely won't have that subie rumble.

Update:
I had the morning off today so I went into the shop where my stock header is and did a little scavenge test. Looks like I was right stock header is garbage. Doesn't scavenge from any cylinder. I'll take my header off sometime this week and do the same test. But for now I used a full race divided housing to compare.
Thanks for the video!

Wouldn't that have more to do with the collectors then the pairing, though? I'm not a header expert, but from my understanding you want the pulse widths to be even.
Calum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:35 PM   #712
Calum
That Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2013 asphalt FRS MT
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 4,865
Thanks: 5,058
Thanked 2,867 Times in 1,499 Posts
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardus@Supersprint View Post
Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
That's harsher then was required. Even if the man is wrong, there's no need to be like that.

In the end, he was trying to make the point that the stock header doesn't scavenge very well, and I think he made it. A dynamic test may reveal something different, of course, but this is the best most of us could do with what we have on hand. I disagree with his conclusion as to why but that's why we have conversions.
Calum is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Calum For This Useful Post:
Do Boy (11-20-2012), MindtheGap (12-28-2012), Skywgn1 (11-20-2012), soros151 (11-20-2012)
Old 11-19-2012, 10:49 PM   #713
chanomatik
Snow Don't Hurt!
 
chanomatik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2013 BRZ Limited 6MT CBS
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posts: 2,538
Thanks: 6,416
Thanked 1,497 Times in 902 Posts
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardus@Supersprint View Post
Anybody with just a little knowledge in fluidodynamics would understand that it's meaningless...
Feel free to contribute by elaborating.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to chanomatik For This Useful Post:
Do Boy (11-20-2012)
Old 11-19-2012, 11:38 PM   #714
Coheed
Senior Member
 
Coheed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: DGM BRZ Limited
Location: Seattle
Posts: 813
Thanks: 209
Thanked 225 Times in 157 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)




Coheed is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Coheed For This Useful Post:
wichiewichie (11-20-2012)
 
Reply

Tags
21 months no dyno, 22 months no vendor dyno, 22months4rattles&leakssmh, amazing warped qualiy, y u no tag

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nameless Performance BRZ Axleback Exhaust ESBjiujitsu Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 1377 04-21-2020 02:23 AM
Nameless Performance Axleback is available for pre-order. Nameless Performance Inc. Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 114 07-23-2012 10:38 PM
Nameless Performance Downpipe is available for pre-order. Nameless Performance Inc. Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 4 07-12-2012 04:57 PM
We are Nameless Performance. John@Nameless Announcements, Contests, Giveaways 22 06-18-2012 11:32 PM
Nameless Performance is here. Nameless Performance Inc. Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 16 06-06-2012 04:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.