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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


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Old 07-05-2013, 10:15 AM   #29
DJCarbine
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I also did my job completely unassisted in my driveway.

At the end of the day, I think the OP encountered a lot of issues that are representative of the worst case scenario but its great that he was able to document it so that others can see what they could expect if things don't go smoothly, but to be fair, a lot of us have done this without professional (or any) assistance or shop tools and had a smoother experience.

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Old 07-05-2013, 11:05 AM   #30
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Great stuff...couldn't sleep from like 3-6am last night so I spent the time watching and reading all of this.


The verdict: I'll be paying someone else to install and tune whichever kit I end up choosing. I learned the hard way with my home renovation that sometimes it's worth it to just pay a professional. I'll probably roll with Innovative tuning here in Buffalo. Dudes' have been building some beast Subie engines for several years now..it's either that, or I ship my car down to FA20 club in FL.. That'll cost me, of course.


Thanks for the great work and detailed review. Good stuff brotha!
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:19 AM   #31
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Awesome review... my engine bay looks a lot like yours lol.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #32
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I also completed mine in my garage ( I have an above average amount of tools). Through the night also had zero issues with tune (visconti). And "knock on wood" have not had to go back over my install. I only open the hood to show it off.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:38 AM   #33
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I have roughly the same mods and I'm very happy that I didn't encounter some of then issues encountered here. The bent tube, trouble with the belt, and placing of the air box to cite some examples.

I also did my job completely unassisted in my driveway.

That said, I do agree with several of his points. The washer fluid reservoir design is a hack job and placement puts pressure on the plastic underbody piece that then forces against the bumper. I'm sure this contributes to making the bumper a pain in the ass the line back up with the fender on the driver side. The hood prop is another pain point but I avoided it with my GrimmSpeed hood struts. Being at the mercy of your tuner is a valid point as well but true even without an FI kit. I'm not sure why Perrin couldn't address the timing problem or why he didn't offer to do a remote dyno session. I use Visconti's Vortech tune without issues.

At the end of the day, I think the OP encountered a lot of issues that are representative of the worst case scenario but its great that he was able to document it so that others can see what they could expect if things don't go smoothly, but to be fair, a lot of us have done this without professional (or any) assistance or shop tools and had a smoother experience.

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This. I did two cars in a similar environment to Dezoris. Had the lift and tools, but two dudes who weren't master techs

I agree with all of his gripes though about the kit. Especially the wiper tank, its nearly a joke.

To his question, would I go through all of this again on my next car? Most likely not. I love cars, but I'm getting older and have to shift priorities for my future. I'd buy a car that was to go from the factory with respect to power and go from there.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:20 PM   #34
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I love cars, but I'm getting older and have to shift priorities for my future. I'd buy a car that was to go from the factory with respect to power and go from there.

Same here, but in the video he says exactly why a factory car isn't an option, there are no other rwd 2700lb sports cars in this price bracket. Aftermarket is the only option if you want a new real sports car under $33k. I am just a little confused about picking a cent supercharger, were there any OEM cars ever released with a cent. charger? Its obvious from the vid he wants as OEM like upgrade as possible so chosing a cent. charger is confusing me, does he know something the rest of use don't? Hasn't Toyota, TRD, Mini, and ford always used positive displacement superchargers?
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:27 PM   #35
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Did you have the same issue the OP had with the Vortech install instructions?
Admittedly, the instructions are not the best and I could see how someone could run into issues with it. That said, I've messed around with cars as an amateur for the past 30 years and I've already done a bunch of stuff to the BRZ for the past year, so I used the instructions more as a guideline than as gospel.
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #36
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Same here, but in the video he says exactly why a factory car isn't an option, there are no other rwd 2700lb sports cars in this price bracket. Aftermarket is the only option if you want a new real sports car under $33k. I am just a little confused about picking a cent supercharger, were there any OEM cars ever released with a cent. charger? Its obvious from the vid he wants as OEM like upgrade as possible so chosing a cent. charger is confusing me, does he know something the rest of use don't? Hasn't Toyota, TRD, Mini, and ford always used positive displacement superchargers?
Agreed. however with getting older hopefully means getting more money to spend on the car Kids will put a damper on another lightweight RWD sports car. Guess I'll have to save my pennies for the RS6 avant or CTS-V Wagen.

As far as centrifugal or not, I believe one of the main factors for picking Vortech is their reputation for support and reliability. LIke you i'm unsure about if centrifugals being used in OEM.
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:02 PM   #37
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Great thread. Pure honesty that's what we need.

Its obvious that going FI you wanted OEM quality and reliability which is smart. I understand choosing a supercharger over a turbo kit to retain the linear throttle response. But I don't remember any OEM ever using a centrifugal supercharger, they always use a positive displacement charger so kind of surprised by your decision to go this route.

Intercoolers were developed for OEM's originally where the compression ratio was low enough to allow 15-20 psi boost. With this high compression engine and only boosting 5-7psi, an intercooler probably is a good selling point but does it really do much? Proper tuning and an efficient <+40hp supercharger without an intercooler has a lot less complexity and issues retrofitting.

If these cars keep selling in a few years there with be a simple reliable positive displacement OEM+ like kit. For now its faster than a 944 which is fine for me. I could care less that minivans and family sedans are faster in a straight line. . Good luck and thanks for taking the time to give truthful information and reinforcing my decision to wait a few years before adding FI.
Well, the options were rather limited when I bought this, it had already had development time. In terms of actual performance it is very "OEM" like. Including the torque dip the DI injector SAE data showed from Toyota.

The install on the other hand is nothing like what pos dis setups would be like from an OEM. I knew some of this going in. For me it was a project, I approached it that way. Do I know something thousands of others have done before me? Certainly not. Vortech is the biggest Supercharger company for the most part, which means in terms of development they should have gotten it right. Thats why I wanted to test this one.

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I seriously thought I was watching a movie. I dont know what you do for a living but it should be just that. Do you have any inclination to come to 86 nationals
Thanks man, I would like to go probably just to network meet some other owners. The drag/drift scene is not really my thing. I wished there was some track autox too.

I saw P&L signed up which is a local tuner here. I hope they get into this car.

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This whole review just makes me happy that I live near rev works. I just dropped the car off and picked it up finished. I wouldn't have done FI yet if I had to do the install at home. I used to enjoy that stuff, now I'm more of a 'pay someone else' kinda guy lol.
I would have paid for sure, then it would have been their issue and Vortechs to figure out. Same thing when post install problems popped up.

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I have roughly the same mods and I'm very happy that I didn't encounter some of then issues encountered here. The bent tube, trouble with the belt, and placing of the air box to cite some examples.

I also did my job completely unassisted in my driveway.

That said, I do agree with several of his points. The washer fluid reservoir design is a hack job and placement puts pressure on the plastic underbody piece that then forces against the bumper. I'm sure this contributes to making the bumper a pain in the ass the line back up with the fender on the driver side. The hood prop is another pain point but I avoided it with my GrimmSpeed hood struts. Being at the mercy of your tuner is a valid point as well but true even without an FI kit. I'm not sure why Perrin couldn't address the timing problem or why he didn't offer to do a remote dyno session. I use Visconti's Vortech tune without issues.

At the end of the day, I think the OP encountered a lot of issues that are representative of the worst case scenario but its great that he was able to document it so that others can see what they could expect if things don't go smoothly, but to be fair, a lot of us have done this without professional (or any) assistance or shop tools and had a smoother experience.

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Some of it is worst case like the ODB2 connector problem. And of course some of these issues are universal to the install while others some can just gloss over.

Remote dyno session would have been nice for sure. Don't think Perrin has that kind of time running a shop.


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Admittedly, the instructions are not the best and I could see how someone could run into issues with it. That said, I've messed around with cars as an amateur for the past 30 years and I've already done a bunch of stuff to the BRZ for the past year, so I used the instructions more as a guideline than as gospel.
I deal with this every day at work, non existent documentation. We all do.
But for this type of thing when you spend as much as 35% of the value of the car on after market parts, I expect more. And coming from the "biggest guys" in the industry I certainly am not going to make excuses for them namely when it comes to documentation for something like this.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:29 PM   #38
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I deal with this every day at work, non existent documentation. We all do.
But for this type of thing when you spend as much as 35% of the value of the car on after market parts, I expect more. And coming from the "biggest guys" in the industry I certainly am not going to make excuses for them namely when it comes to documentation for something like this.
Agreed 100% - to be clear, I wasn't trying to defend Vortech on this. I agreed that the documentation was not the best, but I was able to get through it, fortunately. I helped a few other guys go through it, so I know this is a universal issue.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:36 PM   #39
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Agreed 100% - to be clear, I wasn't trying to defend Vortech on this. I agreed that the documentation was not the best, but I was able to get through it, fortunately. I helped a few other guys go through it, so I know this is a universal issue.
Sorry if I came across harsh. And you are right, you can definitely work through it most of it. Vortech is going to have a lot more competition so it's the little things that can help them build customer confidence.

You have serious balls for doing this yourself in your driveway. I constantly thought this at the shop, if I had to do it alone I would quit.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #40
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Sorry if I came across harsh. And you are right, you can definitely work through it most of it. Vortech is going to have a lot more competition so it's the little things that can help them build customer confidence.

You have serious balls for doing this yourself in your driveway. I constantly thought this at the shop, if I had to do it alone I would quit.
Honestly, if I had to do it all over again, I probably would have made sure I had someone to help me. The two things that challenged me the most without an extra pair of hands were the mounting of the charger (damn that thing is awkward to handle and bolt in at the same time), mounting of the radiator (even with an extra pair of hands it sounds like it's still a pain in the ass). The fan belt was actually pretty easy for me without any help. I'm not sure how I managed to make it a non-issue but everyone else I spoke to said the belt was a pain in the ass. I believe I used one of the smooth pulleys instead of a ribbed one as the last point to fit it on to, and I put a crescent wrench on the tensioner from the bottom which gave me plenty of room to detension the belt.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:27 PM   #41
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Sorry if I came across harsh. And you are right, you can definitely work through it most of it. Vortech is going to have a lot more competition so it's the little things that can help them build customer confidence.

You have serious balls for doing this yourself in your driveway. I constantly thought this at the shop, if I had to do it alone I would quit.
You can do anything in a driveway except paint.
Actually scratch that, I painted a car in my driveway lol
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:10 PM   #42
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You can do anything in a driveway except paint.
Actually scratch that, I painted a car in my driveway lol
When I had my first apartment I was tearing shit apart in parking lots and even did a water pump in a snow storm in the middle of a walmart lot. I would not want to do that again.

This was as close as I got in this project, and frankly just wanted to leave the front end apart after doing this for the 4th time.
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